Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

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Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

I am a resident of the state of California and this is my AR-15 rifle. I acquired it legally in late 2006 – 6 years after the passing of California’s so-called “Assault Weapons Ban”. I built it myself with standard household tools even though I had no prior experience. It was easy to build, it looks and shoots great, and best of all, it is perfectly legal.

Here is how you can build your own.

Step 1: Buy an off-list lower receiver through a gun dealer.
Click here for details. Here is a list of "off-list receivers".

Step 2: Install a lower parts kit (trigger, hammer, safety, etc…).
Click here for details.

Step 3: Add a magazine lock, 10 round magazine, and a standard pistol grip or install a California legal grip.
Click here for details.

Step 4: Add a stock and you have a completed Lower Receiver Assembly.

Step 5: Add an Upper Receiver Assembly and your California-Legal AR-15 is ready to shoot!

Q) How is this legal?

A) The Assault Weapons Ban in California bans specific makes and models of rifles by name. If you did not own one of those rifles before the ban was passed in 2000 then you can not legally own one in California now. Since new rilfe manufacturers and models are created all the time, it was difficult for the California lawmakers to keep the list up to date. In order to handle this situation, they also banned any rifle that has specific characteristics that are common with the types of rifles they were intending to ban. These characteristics, commonly referred to as "evil features" consist of things such as pistol grips, flash-hiders, and collapsible or folding stocks. The primary feature they were concerned with was a removable magazine. If your rifle does not have a removable magazine then it can have any and all of the "evil features". If your rifle does have a removeable magazine, then it cannot have any evil features. A product such as the Bullet Button creates a fixed magazine rifle. The MonsterMan Grip does not meet the definition of a pistol grip. By building your rifle using one of these products or other similar ones, taking care to fully understand the law, you can configure a legal AR-15 rifle for use in the state of California.

Q) I have more questions, where can I get more information?

A) There is an online California gun-owners community with thousands of members that have built their own rifles and they are always ready to offer information and advice. If you want to build your own AR-15 I would suggest you join www.calguns.net. Below are some additional useful links:

The Off List Lower "Cliffs Notes"
A California AR/AK "Series" Assault Weapon FAQ
The Office of the Attorney General Assault Weapons Identification Guide

Print | posted on Thursday, August 23, 2007 6:34 PM |

Feedback

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

What brands of lower receivers are you able to build a california legal ar-15 with? and do you have to buy it from a california dealer?

9/16/2007 5:45 AM | Fred Sayers

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Yeah, I need to add some detail to the info about lowers. Basically, get anything that is "off the list". Some of the most popular ones are from Stag Arms, Doublestar, CMMG, Spikes Tactical, but you can even find models by BushMaster and others that are not on the list. Remember, it has to be banned by make AND model.

Here is a thread that lists most of them:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=34397&highlight=oLL

You can either find a CA dealer that is carrying them or you can do a "transfer" from out of state. Just find a dealer that is willing to transfer it in for you. You pay a transfer fee, shipping, and the DROS paperwork fee so count on it costing you at least $75 more than the asking price. Although most dealers that carry them in state know that a transfer costs you more so don't expect to find a stripped lower on the shelf for less than $160.00.

9/16/2007 8:53 AM | David

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

HOw do you load the magazine? Under current law, by removing the magazine with any of the evil features still attached render the rifle illegal.

9/18/2007 1:46 PM | Mel

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

How you load and whether or not the rifle is in an illegal configuration after the magazine is removed depends on what type of magazine lock is used.

If you use a "Prince50" magazine lock (one that uses a screw to prevent the magazine release from being depressed) then you can never remove the magazine while in the state of California or while the rifle has any "evil features" attached. Rifles in this configuration are "top-loaded" - a process that requires the rear take-down pin to be pulled, the upper to be flipped open, and the rounds inserted into the top of the fixed magazine. This process is made somewhat less difficult by using a special take-down pin such as the Watson Extended take down pin or the one I sell that has a "grenade style" pull ring. With this type of configuration, loosening the screw on the magazine lock so that it returns to normal operation while it also has other "evil features" would be a felony possesion of an Assault Weapon.

If you are using a "Bullet Button" then it is a much easier process. You insert a tool into the magazine lock, such as the tip of a bullet, a screwdriver tip, etc..., the magazine is released, and you insert a loaded magazine. This is by definition a "fixed magazine" because the penal code states that a magazine that requires a tool to remove it is considered a fixed magazine. A bullet tip is considered a tool. At no time can you remove the magazine without the use of a tool so this meets the legal definition. The fact that you may temporarily have a rifle with an empty magazine well makes no difference, it is a fixed magazine because at no point can you remove the magazine without requiring the use of a tool.

9/18/2007 2:21 PM | David

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Hi David,

Thanks for this clear explantion of the loading process. I was puzzled on how this configuration actually worked. However, I am still concerned about your statement that reads "The fact that you may temporarily have a rifle with an empty magazine well makes no difference.." is a moot point for me and hoping that you could explain further. I really do want to build a California-legal AR-15 clone or whatever but still have a concern. My understanding (weak as it is) thinks that regardless of whatever "tool" you may have used to detach the magazine, at the exact point that the magazine is removed and the well open with any "evil features" attached - even for a second - renders the rifle illegal. I would refer you to this link for reference. See paragraph 9 in this link:

http://www.calguns.net/a_california_arak.htm

It seems to make sense especially the part about leaving the well open. Do you concur?

9/18/2007 11:29 PM | MEl

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

I understand your concern. That FAQ was written by Bill Wiese, a very active member of the calguns.net forum and "father" of the off-list lower movement. He is referring to the Prince50 or other screw style magazine locks and the FAQ has not been updated to reflect the use of the newer Bullet Button or other push-with-tool type locks. Bill agrees completely with the legality of the Bullet Button style locks. If you search on calguns.net you will find lots of discussions about the legality.

If you look at the penal code there is no language whatsoever that describes "an open magazine well". It only describes what a "detachable magazine" is. Here is the important language so you can interpret it for yourself:

California Penal Code Section 12276.1

(a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:
(1) a semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(a) pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
(b) thumbhole stock.
(c) folding or telescoping stock
(d) grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(e) flash suppressor.
(f) forward pistol grip.

5469 (a) "detachable magazine" means any ammunition feeding device that can be removed readily from the firearm with neither disassembly of the firearm action nor use of a tool being required. A bullet or ammunition cartridge is considered a tool.

Notice how it refers first to the "capacity to accept a detachable magazine". Then "detachable magazine" is defined as one that can be removed without a tool AND the language specifically states that a bullet is a tool. There is nothing in the language about an empty magazine well. The reason that the Bullet Tool lock is legal is that you MUST use a tool to remove it, and once the tool has been used it immediately returns to a state where the tool must be used again in order to remove the magazine. If you pop in another magazine, it is not detachable unless you use the tool again. With the Prince50 or other screw type magazine locks, if you use the tool (a screwdriver) and then remove the magazine you can continue to insert/remove magazines without using the tool again. At the point where you have loosened the screw it has returned back to normal magazine button operation, therefore it now has the capacity to accept a "detachable" magazine.

I hope this makes more sense, I know it is a little difficult to grasp at first. For a little history, the reason the "bullet tip as a tool, tool to remove" language was inserted is because during the comment period of the proposed legislation it was pointed out that some rifles such as the Russian SKS had a fixed magazine that could be removed with a bullet tip and that their language would outlaw this type of rifle. They addressed this by saying that it was their interpretation that a magazine that requires a tool to remove it is not a detachable magazine, but rather a "fixed" magazine.

I hope this helps eleviate your concerns a bit. I suggest you join www.calguns.net and do some research. There is still a bit of risk involved with owning one of these rifles in California. It would be advantageous to fully understand the law and try to maintain a low profile as there is always the possibility that some law enforcement officer that is not fully versed in the law may arrest you just because he is unsure and wants to let the DA sort it out. You need to judge the risk for yourself. I have build two AR style rifles and have helped dozens or others to build theirs. I see people shooting fixed-magazine AR-15 rifles at the ranges I frequent every time I go.

9/19/2007 7:37 AM | David

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

One more comment - most people agree that it is safest to store and transport a Bullet Button rifle with an empty magazine always in place - just to avoid any confusion that people have that "empty magwell = Assault Weapon". If a law enforcement officer were to ever inspect your rifle he would see that a magazine is in place and he would NOT be able to remove it by pushing on the bullet button or pulling the magazine. It is generally accepted that it is just plain easier to explain it as a "fixed magazine" since there is a magazine in place. If you just feel safer with a Prince50 style lock and top-loading that is still an option. Should you decide to move to a Bullet Button later you can make the switch with little effort.

Over time, and as more law enforcement officers become aware of the legality of these magazine locks, the risk involved should continue to go down. There have been some arrests, but in all cases that I am aware of the charges have been dismissed when the owner had his rifle in a proper configuration.

9/19/2007 7:49 AM | David

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

David,
Thank you for this worthy reply and your time taken to write it. I guess my next step before buying any stuff is more research on calguns.net. This blog was a good source of information.

9/19/2007 8:52 AM | Mel

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

If i buy a Prince50 Bullet Button could then use the allen wrench to remove the magazine to reload my ar-15? or once locked do i have to load my ar-15 by pulling the pin out and crack open it half ways?

10/16/2007 12:43 AM | wewex

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

With all the questions that I`ve read regarding prince 50 and bullet button....especially regarding firearm transportation(I had concerns too)......I decided to go with calif. legal U-15 stock in which riflegear sells. You can safely transport your firearm with your magazine detached. The only thing is you can`t have a forward pistol grip or flash hider(no evil features). Thats it.....I replaced my flash hider with a spike fake can. BTW.....you have a great website and you have the best prices on stag uppers. (smile)

10/16/2007 3:24 AM | joseph golden

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

wewex, do not confuse the original Prince50 magazine lock with the new Prince50 Bullet Button. The original Prince50 is the one with the set screw. With that magazine lock, you MUST pivot open the upper receiver and load from the top. Loosening the set screw on a Price50 rifle with evil-features would create a felony situation as you would have just created an Assault Weapon. The reason is because you can then remove magazines without the use of a tool. Do not ever do this while in California.

Conversely, with the Bullet Buttton, you can just insert a bullet tip to drop the magazine and reload with a new magazine. You can do this over and over again and the weapon is not in an Assault Weapon state as it ALWAYS requires a tool to remove the magazine. The key language here is in the "capacity to accept a detachable magazine". A detachable magazine is defined as one that can be removed without the use of a tool. Think about what happens when you loosen the set screw on the Prince50 - it now operates as a normal magazine release. You can insert and drop the magazine over and over again until you tighten up that set screw. In that mode it MOST DEFINITELY has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine - a big no-no in the state of California if the rifle also has other evil features. With the Bullet Button, you ALWAYS have to use the tool to drop the magazine, therefore at NO TIME does it ever have the capacity to accept a detachable magazine. Make sense?

And yes, Joe makes a good point. a featureless rifle with a U-15 or MonsterMan grip can have a normal magazine release without having to deal with the issue above. The trade off is that you have a slightly funny looking AR-15 but at least you can reload it with ease.

10/16/2007 11:32 AM | David

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

U r awesome David,Thanks you so much!!! now i am 100% back on track and now exactly what's legal and what's not,in my good old state od CA. Thanks to all who helped me!!!

10/16/2007 1:12 PM | wewex

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

man i should have used spell check,lol

10/16/2007 1:13 PM | wewex

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

David, in the image your Ar-15 at the top of the page, I noticed you have what looks like a 10 round magazine with a 20 round body. I have seen alot of CA Legal AR-15s with it and it resembles Bushmasters 5 round hunting mag, could you tell me where to get one.
-Thanks, Shooter

11/4/2007 8:17 PM | Shooter

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Thats the old style Bushmaster 10 round magazine in 20 round body. These are great magazines but very hard to find now as Bushmaster discontinued them and now have the short 10 round magazines that are made by C Products.

11/4/2007 8:37 PM | David

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Oh, ok thanks for the info, I have several of the C products 10 rounders and they all work great with my rifle and the bullet button.
-Thanks, Shooter

11/4/2007 8:44 PM | Shooter

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Can an AR-15 type (currently on the AW list) that was bought prior to the ban, but not registered as an AW, be retrofitted with the prince lock and thus be considered immediately legal and therefore transferable in CA?

11/14/2007 2:02 PM | Jack

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Jack,

This has come up before. The short answer is no. There is no provision in the law for taking a listed assault weapon and making it legal by adding a magazine lock. Listed weapons are covered under Category 1 Assault Weapons that are named by make and model. The best you could probably do in this case would be to buy an off-list lower receiver and salvage the upper, stock, and any other parts you can off the listed rifle.

11/14/2007 10:29 PM | David

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Thanks for the info David. Very helpful.
Quick question, you mentioned that you see people shooting CA legal AR-15's at several ranges. Could you tell me which ranges so that when I do build mine up I'll know where to go?

Thanks in advance.

11/24/2007 2:29 AM | Pete

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

I've shot mine at Burro Canyon in Azusa, CA and Angeles Range in Lake View Terrace, CA and an indoor range called On Target in Laguna Niguel. I went to Burro Canyon yesterday, as a matter of fact, and I saw two other AR style rifles. One guy was top-loading, another appeared to be a registered AW, and I was dropping mags with my Bullet Button.

I'm pretty sure that in nearly every range they really only care that you are being safe and following the range master's instructions.

11/24/2007 9:31 AM | David

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

I have a Stag Arms 3H rifle coming next week with the Bullet Button installed. It will arrive with a 10 round mag. My question is, I have three 30 round magazine I have owned before 2000. Can I use these magazines for my AR-15? Can I put in more than 10 rounds?

11/25/2007 7:20 PM | Eric

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Eric,

You MUST not put a magazine with a capacity larger than 10 rounds in a fixed magazine rifle. As crazy as that sounds it would make it an Assault Weapon. I can't locate the text right now but I am sure that is the case. If you have pre-ban 30 rounders I would build a "featureless" rifle with a MonsterMan grip so I could use those 30 rounders without a magazine lock. You can post this question on www.calguns.net and I'm sure someone can cite you as to why you cannot use the large capacity mags in a fixed mag rifle.

David

11/25/2007 9:40 PM | David

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

WHERE CAN I FIND A DEALER THAT WILL SELL NON LISTED LOWERS?

12/4/2007 9:18 PM | NATE

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

It depends on what area you are in. Either ask on www.calguns.net or just call some of your local dealers and ask if they sell or will transfer one in for you.

12/6/2007 9:03 PM | David

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

i'm in the process of building a CA legal ar15 right now for my wife (i have a pre-ban registered one), but purily out of curiosity it has been said in previous posts that there have been some arrests made and then the cases thrown out. Does anyone know the circumstances under which these arrests were made, like did officers check their weapons at a range? Or did these people commit some other crimes and then their rifles were discovered and additional charges added on? The reason I ask is that I mostly shoot outdoors on public lands designated for target practice, and I can't really imagine an officer coming over to check the legal status of my firearms whilst i'm holding both a loaded primary and secondary? In fact I only ever see border patrol or park rangers, depending where I go, and they will never stop.

12/7/2007 2:28 PM | mike

# WHERE CAN I FIND A DEALER THAT WILL SELL NON LISTED LOWERS?

Irvington Arms in Fremont has lowers for sale. Good luck.

12/12/2007 2:10 PM | Don

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

I presently own a Calif legal AR15 built by Vulcan Armament. It has a fixed mag and I would like to install a Prince bullet button. For the life of me I cannot figure out how to remove the mag that is installed. The magazine catch button is solidly in place and cannot be pushed in. Can anyone tell me how to remove this without resorting to drilling it out. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks Mike D

12/21/2007 7:17 PM | Mike D

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

you should get in touch with Vulcan to see what can be done... The Bushmaster Carbon rifles have a fixed mag, with the well sealed up- It might be easier to pick up an OLL and parts kit to move you upper on to.

cm

12/22/2007 3:36 PM | c maynes

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

I know a few guys on calguns.net have converted the Vulcans. I would post a question on that forum and someone with some real experience with that rifle may be able to shed some light on what is going on with the magazine release.

12/22/2007 3:36 PM | David

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

i live in arizona and bought a AR-15 and i plan on moving back to california. Can i just get a off list receiver and use the upper and stock from the one i own now.

1/3/2008 4:27 AM | Eddie

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

@Eddie
Absolutely, just make sure you are legal with your evil features. If you have a flash-hider, collapsible stock, pistol-grip, or forward vertical grip, then just install a Bullet Button magazine lock. I sell them on my site for $25.00. Join www.calguns.net and ask questions there to make sure your configuration is 100% legal.

1/3/2008 8:11 AM | David

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

That's awesome. How much did it cost to build just out of curiosity if you don't mind me asking??

1/5/2008 12:03 AM | Cozmo

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Cozmo, a setup like this one, which has quite a few upgrades from a standard AR, would probably run about $1100 without the optics. You can build a basic, no-frills AR with all new parts for around $700-800.

1/5/2008 9:08 AM | David

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

I am a Arizona Resident but I currently reside in California on bussiness and am thinking of moving back to California. I am in the process of building an AR 15 but I noticed that I could use the 6.8 insted of the 5.56. Since I do alot of hunting would the 6.8mm be a better choice for Javalina and maybe some deer?

1/6/2008 6:12 PM | Alvaro

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Alvaro,

6.8 would definitely have more knock down power than the 5.56. Up to around 200 yards it pretty much has the same ballistic characteristics as 5.56 as well. You may want to check ammo price and availability as a factor as well - although it is all pretty much expensive these days! You could also just swap the upper and mag if you wanted to switch back and forth from 5.56 and 6.8

1/6/2008 6:53 PM | David

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

I just wanted to suggest J and J Armory for Off List Lowers (OLL) to anyone in the O.C. and south L.A. area as they were recommended to me by David (the blogger) via phone. J and J Armory had great prices on Stag OLLs around $160 (CMMG $170) at the time of this posting which is slightly higher than internet prices BUT after you factor in a FFL fee and shipping, is equal in cost with LESS hassle if you are in the aforementioned location. The guys at J and J will take the time to explain to you what you need to make your rifle work. They are a small operation and have all you need including great info but are a little more pricey on the rest of your assembly (Uppers, lower parts kits). I would recommend getting your OLL receiver from them and heading over to David's site "riflegear.com" to save a little on the rest of your assembly. You may be afraid to build your own rifle but a) building it from scratch will teach you how your firearm works and b) is really easy with a wealth of building info on the net and videos on youtube. Thanks for the recommendation David!

1/11/2008 12:53 AM | David #2

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

I just turned 19 and have built 2 AR-15 style weapons. I love the style of this weapon, and hope to add many accessories to the rifles. Building these systems not only gives a small discount on parts and labor, but also gives you the upper edge at maintaining and adjusting the weapon. I live in the fremont area and have purchased the majority of my parts through Irvington Arms in Fremont, CA. These guys have been a great help at getting parts. I think they even offer a course on assembly. Building is amazingly easy and fun! If I can build these things, then anyone can. If I had to recommend any manufacturers I would have to recommend Rock River Arms, they seem to have decent equipment. If anyone has any questions or needs any help building, feel free to give me a call at 307-690-9925, I would be happy to help.

1/12/2008 1:49 AM | Alex D.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

i've built a couple AR's, SR's, and AK's. They are easy to build. If you run into any trouble there's enough information online to help you through it. I picked up my lowers, CMMG and POF, from gun shows. Then always use DPMS lower parts kits, they are the best by far, smoother triggers!! For uppers my preference goes to Rock River, Vulcan, and if you can afford it POF cause they got the new gas piston uppers. One thing about POF, despite what they advertise about being all-American they are a subsidiary of Pakistan Ordinance Factory (a licensed producer of HK guns), which might be an issue to some. I personally don't care because they make really good quality stuff but their uppers run about $1200 as opposed to like $500 for other brands, however in my opinion the gas piston system is worth it. There are some other manufacturers that are starting to make gas piston system but i'm not sure about their quality. For any accessories is usually go for command arms products, in my opinion by far the best. Oh yeah for you lefties, STAG makes left handed uppers. For 30rd mags you can drive to Arizona, but you don't wanna get caught with them. I use the 10/30 mags.

I personally use the bullet button, however when I go shoot on public lands I switch it out with a normal mag release because its hard to run drills and stress shoots with a bullet button.

Also I wanna recommend Cold War Shooters at www.coldwarshooters.net, they are awesome when it comes down to CA legal stuff. They got this kid who looks about 12yrs old (he's much older really) who develops all sorts of modifications to make most rifles CA legal. I got FN FS2000 from them recently with a gas block in it so that it essentially becomes a bolt action rifle, making it legal for sale. The gas block was easily removed. The main thing when dealing with them is finding a FFL in your area that will accept the transfer. Most FFL's don't understand all the laws and thus stay away from anything assault rifle related. Cold War Shooter will usually refer you to an FFL, in my case a guy working out of his garage.

In addition you guys should know that any cops outside Los Angeles ARE NOT ALLOWED TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT YOUR WEAPON IS CALIFORNIA LEGAL. They are not trained to do so and therefore cannot make any arrests based on this. What they can do is confiscate your weapon, send it to the armory where you weapon is examined, and then charges might be filed at a later date. But even then, the only reason why cops would be looking at you weapons is if you break the law in the first place. Cops aren't gonna walk up to you at a range or on public lands designated for shooting when you are standing there with loaded weapons. In my experience, the only reason why they come over is to shoot your stuff cos you got the coolest rifles on the range.

Finally, if you really wanna have to some good stuff just apply for your own FFL. All you really need is a clean record, an address, and an approved safe.

Damn I wrote too much, hope any of this info was useful

Mike R

1/12/2008 4:09 PM | mike r

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

reall quick addition. the info about cops not being allowed to make determinations about came from a gun dealer and several LE friends of mine agreed, but I never researched the exact laws about this.

1/12/2008 4:13 PM | mike r

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

I want my Ar-15 to look like exactly likes yours and this is my first time trying to build/look for parts for a cal. legal ar-15. Can you tell me exactly what parts/brand you used? I would be greatly thankful.

jay

1/16/2008 11:37 PM | Jay

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

jay,

Stag Arms Lower and lower parts kit
CMMG 14.5" lightweight upper with permanent phantom flash-hider
PRI Gas Block/Flip Sight
Midwest Industries two-piece free float forearm
Midwest Industries rear flip sight
Magpul CTR stock
TangoDown Battlegrip and Vertical grip
EOTech 511 holographic sight
Magpul enhanced trigger guard
Magpul rail panels
Stag ambi-selector
Bullet Buttom magazine lock

I think that is about it.

1/17/2008 12:25 AM | David

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

thanks man...also i wanted to know more about the mini 14/30 fusion rifle system. It says it comes with a T6 stock (adjustable stock) dues that come under "collapsible stock"? Also I was looking at http://www.ruger-mini-14-firearms.com/mini_14_30_accessories.php, under number 9 SCAR. What do you think? 16" is the legal lenth of a a riffle in CA right? Thank's once again

1/17/2008 12:44 AM | Jay

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Jay,

You would have to have a way to fix the magazine on the Mini-14 so that it requires a tool to remove it if you want to be able to have a pistol grip and collapsible stock on the Mini-14. Personally I think the CA-Legal version of that stock looks nice and that is the one I would get. I am not aware of anyone making a magazine lock kit for the Mini-14 so you need to avoid any pistol grip, collsible, or thumb-hole stock for that rifle. For just a little more money you can build a CA-legal AR that will be more accurate than any Mini-14 and you can have all the cool tactical accessories you want because it is easy to make it a fixed magazine rifle by just adding a $25.00 Bullet Button.

1/17/2008 8:20 AM | David

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

I have been working on an 80% machined lower forging. I want to put all of my stock, pre-ban Colt 6520 items on that lower and install the Bullet Button. Once it is all put together, does it need to be registered at all or in some way? I read somewhere that for it to be fully legal, I need to emboss the lower with whatever I want to the reg number to be and then have it registered with that reg as a legal rifle. If it doesn't need to be registered, will I ever have to show any kind of paperwork if questioned? Just to clarify, 80% lowers fall in the same category as off-list lowers?

Regards,
Jeremy

1/21/2008 6:29 PM | Jeremy

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Jeremy,

Registering would only be requried for an Assault Weapon and that was only possible for a brief time before Jan 1st, 2000. It is impossible now to create a class 1, 2, or 3 assault weapon and register it. Your best bet on this project would be to use a magazine lock and make sure your rifle follows all the requiremetns (10 round mag, barrel length of 16" or greater, over all length of 30", etc...)

I'm sorry but I do not know the law in regards to creating your own receiver. I would start a thread on www.calguns.net and ask there and I am sure you will find out all you need to know.

1/23/2008 1:58 PM | David

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Dave: I saw the rifle you built for your wife, it is without a doubt the neatest AR I've seen. I have 4 AR's with 2 of them set up just for varmint hunting and the other 2 just for shooting at targets and plinking. I sure wish I could get my wife to enjoy shooting, I would build her 1 something on the style you did for your wife. I have also purchased an Survival Rifle the old
AR-7 style from Henry Firearms and have installed a bull barrel with a barrel shroud on it, and installed an A2 buttstock and pistol grip on it. It looks very much like an miniture AR-15. As a topper for it I have installed a 3-9x32 scope on it. I had a guy come up to me at the range a couple of weeks ago as I was screwing on the barrel shroud and asked if it was some special type of target rifle. With the bull barrel it shoots a lot better then with the standard Henry plastic/steel lined barrel it came with. It will keep within 1" at 50 yards.

Bob

1/29/2008 1:03 PM | Bob

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

ok i have a ar10 ap4 308 what are the thing i kneed to get

1/30/2008 5:29 PM | eddie

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

if some one knows what parts i kneed plz email me eddiesied1@yahoo.com

1/30/2008 5:30 PM | eddie

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

I am told that the Rock River CAR A4 AR15 can be transferred into Ca. so long as it has the "bullet button" installed instead of the mag release. Do you know anything about this?

1/30/2008 6:09 PM | Bart Scialabba

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Bart: You are correct. I have a Rock River AR15 A4 Varmint rifle and all I had to have done before having it transferred to my FFL dealer was have the Bullet Button Mag release installed. Also have a Stag 3 with the 6 position carbine buttstock with a Prince 50 Bullet Mag Lock. The Stag I have to break open and load from the top. The Rock River I just use a bullet to release the mag and let it drop. Both are CA legal.

1/30/2008 7:26 PM | Bob

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

I've got a Vulcan CAL1 with a fixed lower receiver, is it legal for me to make the rifle "featureless" first and then disassemble the magazine catch and all that? I was told by a law enforcement officer that if the receiver came with a fixed mag it would be illegal to modify it.

2/1/2008 8:49 PM | Jake

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Jake: Once you remove what is holding the "fixed" magazine in your AR it is techincally no longer CA legal according to its certification by CA DOJ and your letter from Vulcan stating it as CA legal is voided. If you have to do this modification, I would strongly suggest that you contact the people at calgun.net and run it pass them before y ou do anything. I also would suggest that if you go through with the modification that you install a bullet button and keep a low profile. If you're at a one of your local ranges I would continue to load from the top as it was designed, just in case there are some local law enforcement using the range at the same time. Then if you are out on some BLM land then go ahead and drop your mag. Oh yeah, don't have any extra mags with you as this would lead them to look a little closer. I hope this helps and good luck.

2/2/2008 12:58 PM | Bob

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Folks...I recently returned to CA with a Mini-14 purchased in CA around 1990 and several 30-round magazines purchaed about the same time. Since they are 'grandfathered' can I continue to use? Thanks!

2/4/2008 5:45 AM | Herbert92x

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Herbert,

I don't think you can legally bring the 30 rounders back into the state even though you bought them before the ban. I would suggest joining www.calguns.net and searching/asking there.

2/6/2008 6:30 PM | David

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Finally. Simple explanations and procedures without the cloak and dagger runaround routine. For this display of courtesy and professionalism, i will shop here, thanks!

2/9/2008 3:56 PM | Troy

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

If you have a built w/off list lower, registered ar-15 with a bb 10rd mag and you have the registered #
with you is it still possible your ar could be confiscated by law enforcement.

2/11/2008 9:38 PM | greg

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

greg,

An off-list AR would not be registered, registration ended in 2000 and if you did not register your rifle at that time you cannot do it now. An off-list AR, properly configured is indeed legal, but there is no guarantee you will not be arrested or hassled by a law enforcement office that is ignorant of these complex laws. It would be in your best interest to be able to competely explain why your rifle is legal should that situation ever arise. The situation is getting better all the time, however, as these are becoming more and more common with tens of thousands of them having been imported into the state in the last few years. Also, the fact that every case with a properly configured OLL has been dropped also works in our favor as the legality becomes more well known amount the CA county DAs. There is however still a slight risk involved and you must be willing to accept that risk if you intend to play in this arena.

2/11/2008 10:37 PM | David

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

David: I've been seeing a lot of talk about the bullet button and the detachable magazine issue and "evil" features such as pistol grip and adjustable stock. A guy on Lee.org is rasing the issue that this could be illegal according to the confusing DOJ definition and what Bill Weise has stated on calguns.com. Lee the guy who runs the blog is getting rather testy and irratated by the question, but is willing to review and get back to the guy rasing the issue. I'm a firm believer that the bullet button is legal, however the guy is making a good case about it not being. I would be very interested if you would be so kind to review this issue (proberly for the 100th time). I have a couple of rifles with the bullet button, one with a pistol grip and fixed stock, the other has one of the cool looking U-15 stocks.

2/16/2008 4:06 PM | Bob

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Bob,

I replied to his posts over on lee.org. His mistake is that he is focusing on the definition of "Magazine, Fixed" but the one that is mentioned in the actual penal code is "Magazine, Detachable". The definition of a fixed magazine is irrelevant as that is not mentioned in the penal code that lists the banned features.

2/16/2008 8:18 PM | David

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

David: I read your response to Patriot over on Lee.org. I thought your explination was right on target. I just wish people would stop bringing up this subject and move on with building their rifles. By the way the rifle for your wife is off the 10 scale. Brilliant idea and excellent workmanship.

Thanks for responding and clearing up the confusion.
McCain in 08

2/17/2008 12:03 PM | Bob

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

David,

I talked with the DOJ the other day here in Sacramento, and you can register an AR with an OLL with the proper magazine lock, etc. According to them, the registration that ended in 2000 as well as other past dates and amnesties thatwe're all aware of was for "assault rifles." The rifles we are talking of building in this forum and the one of yours pictured at the top of this forum are not "assault rifles" by CA definition and can be registered simply as "rifles" as long as they meet the legal criteria that does not make them "assault rifles." He went on to say that the advantage of registering the rifles is that they will be grandfathered in like "assault rifles" were since there are ongoing attempts by legislature to include OLL's and 0-80% forgings in the bans. He also said that the Bullet Button is currently "very gray" and that the current philosophy specifically within Sacramento County is to confiscate AR style rifles regardless of their features. You will not be arrested or go to jail as long as the rifle has legal features, but there is a high likelihood that you will not get your rifle back. This is information directly from the DOJ, and specifically from an individual at the DOJ who is an avid collector of AR and similar style rifles. Unless he is an extremely uninformed individual, I am apt to believe him.

Regards,
Jeremy

2/20/2008 10:15 AM | Jeremy

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Bob,

I actually like the idea of continuing to talk about the laws as I'm building my AR(s) if it means keeping my butt out of Federal Prison for the next two to ten. The laws can be so confusing and subject to so much interpretation, especially here in CA. All it would take is to have the wrong hammer or disconnector in your homebuilt rifle and you're done if it gets into the hands of a well-informed armorer at the ATF who's inspecting your rifle after it was confiscated. I've actually ordered semi-auto internal kits that have had the auto bolt carrier and other M16 pieces in them by accident. If I hadn't known the difference, they'd be in a rifle. It happens. I prefer to be well-informed. Just my two bits.

Regards,
Jeremy

2/20/2008 10:32 AM | Jeremy

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Jeremy,

I don't doubt that is what the DOJ told you but you need to weigh what they said with their true objectives. If they told you something was a "gray area", that means it is legal. If it were illegal they would say so. They tried to "clarify" what a "proper" fixed magazine is once before and failed miserably and were forced to take down their notice (they tried to claim that the magazine well had to be welded shut). There is no registration required for non-assault weapons and any registration period for true Assault Weapons ended in 2000. I would not give them that information and this is the first I have heard about any sort of pre-registration being requried to be "grandfatheried in" should they pass new legislation. Should they pass new legislation banning off-list lowers, they most likely would be required to open a new registration period at that time. I personally would not give them any information about legal rifles that I own - that is asking for trouble. Please, if you have not done so already, join www.calguns.net and post this information in the "Riflemans Forum". I'm sure it will spark lots of good discussion from those "in the know" about what is going on in Sacramento.

David

2/20/2008 2:07 PM | David

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Jeremy: Very interesting information regarding the DOJ. I didn't mean to be negative but after so many people going over the same subject it just gets to be like it is routine. I would have to agree with David about being cautious regarding giving out your inofrmation to the DOJ. New registration would require another round of new registration for our semi automatic rifles. The best way we can keep new legistration against our rifles / guns is to vote the anti gun group out of office. Last weekend I was at my local range and there had to be 4 or 5 of us with AR's. I spoke to one guy who was looking into building his own and he was telling us that he has contact with a lot of our local police officers and they are not up to speed as to what is legal and what is not (sound familar?) Their response is to confinscate and let their experts determine if you will get your rifle back. With that in mind, it's best just to keep a low profile and don't bring attention to your collection.

McCain in 08

2/20/2008 7:18 PM | Bob

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Bob,

I didn't think you were being negative. It does get old, but unfortunately this is a topic that probably could and will go on forever. And I do think it's necessary, and I learn a lot from forums such as these. In a sick way, it is interesting since most if not all of it is so absurd. And don't worry about me, I have no intention of registering any of my AR style rifles. I have enough registered with "them" as it is. I'm just presenting information that I hope stresses the legality of these rifles and what we're trying to do here. I'm a pessimist when it comes to CA legislation. If you look at current trends in CA regarding every other aspect of our lives, it is only going to get worse here and not better (until it comes to a head). One of our best hopes for the repeal of current bans, etc. is in office right now and nothing is being done. Our only other and best hope is to elect Tom Selleck as our next governor. Let's get the paperwork started.

Regards,
Jeremy

2/21/2008 12:33 PM | Jeremy

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Hello,

I have a question i am thinking of buying a AR-15 from www.lanworldinc.com. What do you think about them are there rifles up to date with the California law. They have some that are fixed mag with bullet bottam mag lock. I seen a AR-15 rifle that is so on atlanticfirearms.com that is approved by the DOJ. What is the different between the two i think the one of them has prince 50 mag lock then the other. Can anyone help with some info.

3/13/2008 1:49 AM | SAM

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Sam: I have purchased 2 complete AR-15's, a Stag model 3 and a Rock River Varmint LAR-15 and 1 Stag AR-15 lower with A2 buttstock from Chris at Lanworldinc. I really don't believe you can go wrong working with him. Chris is very much in the know regarding California law as he specializes in California customers.

The CA DOJ approved guns at Atlantic are top load guns only, meaning you have to break them open each time to load up the magazine as they have fixed mags. The Vulcan AR-15 has the mag revitted which makes it fixed, the DPMS is a single shot unit with a internal one round mag and the Bushmaster Carbon 15 is a carbon resin unit with a fixed internal mag.
Of all the CA DOJ approved rifles the Vulcan is the best looking as I believe they use a 10/20 rd mag. (holds 10 rds in a 20 rd body)

I have one of the Carbon 15's from Bushmaster which was my first AR-15. The purchase price of the Carbon 15 puts it a couple hundred dollars more then a Stag model 3. I also had Chris do my complete Stag model 3 with a Prince 50 mag lock. These rifles are kind of pain to reload. My other rifle is a Rock River Varmint rifle which I had Chris fit with a bullet button so I can drop the mag. I did install a U15 buttstock on it also. I use this rifle to hunt with. The lower I got from Chris is a Stag A2 in 223 and I went with a bullet button on it.

You can't beat the prices from Lanworldinc. If you go to Lee.org website you can see my rifles as a posted a couple photos of them. Do take in consideration, the CA DOJ has not approved the bullet buttons offically and may never will. Like David says "there is a risk owning these types of rifles".

Best of luck and happy shooting....

3/16/2008 11:28 AM | Bob

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

David: Is there a way to post pictures on this thread? I have an AR-7 that I customized to look like a mini AR-15 that I would like to post.

3/18/2008 6:16 AM | Bob Lindsey

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Bob,

You cannot post pictures but you can include a link in your post. This blog entry isn't really meant as a picture thread but as a way to help people to learn about building a CA legal AR-15. A better place to post pictures would be in the Picture Gallery on www.calguns.net: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/forumdisplay.php?f=120

3/18/2008 8:36 AM | David

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Dave: Thanks for the information regarding photo's. I'll see if I can post my photo's of my AR-15's and my AR-7.

3/19/2008 10:53 AM | Bob Lindsey

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Is it possible to build a California legal AR-15 pistol in any configuration?
Gee thanks by the way because of you I now have to either find a hello kitty weapon of some sort of have one custom done.
Seems the wife who has hello kitty EVERYTHING! including a toaster and a hello kitty Stratocaster now wants a Hello kitty gun!
LMAO well at least she is more interested in going to the range now ;)

3/19/2008 2:51 PM | Aaron

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

CA considers a semi-auto pistol with the magazine anywhere other than inside the pistol grip to also be an "Assault Weapon". So what people are doing is disabling the gas system and making it a bolt-action pistol by using the charging handle after each round.

3/19/2008 3:25 PM | David

# re: AR-15 Pistol

do you know if broom handle Mauser's get around this because of the magazine is fixed or because they are some sort of curio and relic?

3/19/2008 3:30 PM | Aaron

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

I'm not sure but I imagine that could be purchased as a C&R because of it's age.

3/19/2008 10:12 PM | David

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Thanks my friend

3/20/2008 6:55 AM | Aaron

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

how much to build a CA legal AR. low and high end?

3/25/2008 8:43 PM | klaybalz

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Low end would be around $750.00 and high end could be around $2,500.00 and even more with nice optics.

3/26/2008 7:34 AM | David

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

thanx david thinkin about building one

3/26/2008 6:52 PM | klaybalz

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Hi everyone,

I was just wondering, if I applied for a FFL or a Assault Weapons Permit would using a fixed clip or a sb23 featureless rifle be necessayr?

4/8/2008 5:35 PM | Richard

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Not sure what "Assault Weapons Permit" you are referring to. As far as I know you cannot get one except there is an exception for active duty military (although I am not 100% clear here). Just getting an FFL does not allow you to legally own an AW. In general, unless you owned it prior to Jan 1 2000 and registered it during the now long-closed registration window, you are SOL and can only legally acquire a rifle that is not banned by name and that does not violate the feature restrictions.

4/9/2008 7:02 PM | David

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Hi i was just wondering, im planning to build a ar15 but in .22lr. Im planning to build it as a mil style m4 (pistol grip, tele stock bird cage, forward grip, and detachable mag) , but does this fall under the ban? As far as i understand it only refers to center fire rifles

4/16/2008 3:06 PM | Andrew

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