blog.riflegear.com

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

What brands of lower receivers are you able to build a california legal ar-15 with? and do you have to buy it from a california dealer?

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Yeah, I need to add some detail to the info about lowers. Basically, get anything that is "off the list". Some of the most popular ones are from Stag Arms, Doublestar, CMMG, Spikes Tactical, but you can even find models by BushMaster and others that are not on the list. Remember, it has to be banned by make AND model.

Here is a thread that lists most of them:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=34397&highlight=oLL

You can either find a CA dealer that is carrying them or you can do a "transfer" from out of state. Just find a dealer that is willing to transfer it in for you. You pay a transfer fee, shipping, and the DROS paperwork fee so count on it costing you at least $75 more than the asking price. Although most dealers that carry them in state know that a transfer costs you more so don't expect to find a stripped lower on the shelf for less than $160.00.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

HOw do you load the magazine? Under current law, by removing the magazine with any of the evil features still attached render the rifle illegal.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

How you load and whether or not the rifle is in an illegal configuration after the magazine is removed depends on what type of magazine lock is used.

If you use a "Prince50" magazine lock (one that uses a screw to prevent the magazine release from being depressed) then you can never remove the magazine while in the state of California or while the rifle has any "evil features" attached. Rifles in this configuration are "top-loaded" - a process that requires the rear take-down pin to be pulled, the upper to be flipped open, and the rounds inserted into the top of the fixed magazine. This process is made somewhat less difficult by using a special take-down pin such as the Watson Extended take down pin or the one I sell that has a "grenade style" pull ring. With this type of configuration, loosening the screw on the magazine lock so that it returns to normal operation while it also has other "evil features" would be a felony possesion of an Assault Weapon.

If you are using a "Bullet Button" then it is a much easier process. You insert a tool into the magazine lock, such as the tip of a bullet, a screwdriver tip, etc..., the magazine is released, and you insert a loaded magazine. This is by definition a "fixed magazine" because the penal code states that a magazine that requires a tool to remove it is considered a fixed magazine. A bullet tip is considered a tool. At no time can you remove the magazine without the use of a tool so this meets the legal definition. The fact that you may temporarily have a rifle with an empty magazine well makes no difference, it is a fixed magazine because at no point can you remove the magazine without requiring the use of a tool.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Hi David,

Thanks for this clear explantion of the loading process. I was puzzled on how this configuration actually worked. However, I am still concerned about your statement that reads "The fact that you may temporarily have a rifle with an empty magazine well makes no difference.." is a moot point for me and hoping that you could explain further. I really do want to build a California-legal AR-15 clone or whatever but still have a concern. My understanding (weak as it is) thinks that regardless of whatever "tool" you may have used to detach the magazine, at the exact point that the magazine is removed and the well open with any "evil features" attached - even for a second - renders the rifle illegal. I would refer you to this link for reference. See paragraph 9 in this link:

http://www.calguns.net/a_california_arak.htm

It seems to make sense especially the part about leaving the well open. Do you concur?

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

I understand your concern. That FAQ was written by Bill Wiese, a very active member of the calguns.net forum and "father" of the off-list lower movement. He is referring to the Prince50 or other screw style magazine locks and the FAQ has not been updated to reflect the use of the newer Bullet Button or other push-with-tool type locks. Bill agrees completely with the legality of the Bullet Button style locks. If you search on calguns.net you will find lots of discussions about the legality.

If you look at the penal code there is no language whatsoever that describes "an open magazine well". It only describes what a "detachable magazine" is. Here is the important language so you can interpret it for yourself:

California Penal Code Section 12276.1

(a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:
(1) a semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(a) pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
(b) thumbhole stock.
(c) folding or telescoping stock
(d) grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(e) flash suppressor.
(f) forward pistol grip.

5469 (a) "detachable magazine" means any ammunition feeding device that can be removed readily from the firearm with neither disassembly of the firearm action nor use of a tool being required. A bullet or ammunition cartridge is considered a tool.


Notice how it refers first to the "capacity to accept a detachable magazine". Then "detachable magazine" is defined as one that can be removed without a tool AND the language specifically states that a bullet is a tool. There is nothing in the language about an empty magazine well. The reason that the Bullet Tool lock is legal is that you MUST use a tool to remove it, and once the tool has been used it immediately returns to a state where the tool must be used again in order to remove the magazine. If you pop in another magazine, it is not detachable unless you use the tool again. With the Prince50 or other screw type magazine locks, if you use the tool (a screwdriver) and then remove the magazine you can continue to insert/remove magazines without using the tool again. At the point where you have loosened the screw it has returned back to normal magazine button operation, therefore it now has the capacity to accept a "detachable" magazine.

I hope this makes more sense, I know it is a little difficult to grasp at first. For a little history, the reason the "bullet tip as a tool, tool to remove" language was inserted is because during the comment period of the proposed legislation it was pointed out that some rifles such as the Russian SKS had a fixed magazine that could be removed with a bullet tip and that their language would outlaw this type of rifle. They addressed this by saying that it was their interpretation that a magazine that requires a tool to remove it is not a detachable magazine, but rather a "fixed" magazine.

I hope this helps eleviate your concerns a bit. I suggest you join www.calguns.net and do some research. There is still a bit of risk involved with owning one of these rifles in California. It would be advantageous to fully understand the law and try to maintain a low profile as there is always the possibility that some law enforcement officer that is not fully versed in the law may arrest you just because he is unsure and wants to let the DA sort it out. You need to judge the risk for yourself. I have build two AR style rifles and have helped dozens or others to build theirs. I see people shooting fixed-magazine AR-15 rifles at the ranges I frequent every time I go.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

One more comment - most people agree that it is safest to store and transport a Bullet Button rifle with an empty magazine always in place - just to avoid any confusion that people have that "empty magwell = Assault Weapon". If a law enforcement officer were to ever inspect your rifle he would see that a magazine is in place and he would NOT be able to remove it by pushing on the bullet button or pulling the magazine. It is generally accepted that it is just plain easier to explain it as a "fixed magazine" since there is a magazine in place. If you just feel safer with a Prince50 style lock and top-loading that is still an option. Should you decide to move to a Bullet Button later you can make the switch with little effort.

Over time, and as more law enforcement officers become aware of the legality of these magazine locks, the risk involved should continue to go down. There have been some arrests, but in all cases that I am aware of the charges have been dismissed when the owner had his rifle in a proper configuration.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

David,
Thank you for this worthy reply and your time taken to write it. I guess my next step before buying any stuff is more research on calguns.net. This blog was a good source of information.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

If i buy a Prince50 Bullet Button could then use the allen wrench to remove the magazine to reload my ar-15? or once locked do i have to load my ar-15 by pulling the pin out and crack open it half ways?

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

With all the questions that I`ve read regarding prince 50 and bullet button....especially regarding firearm transportation(I had concerns too)......I decided to go with calif. legal U-15 stock in which riflegear sells. You can safely transport your firearm with your magazine detached. The only thing is you can`t have a forward pistol grip or flash hider(no evil features). Thats it.....I replaced my flash hider with a spike fake can. BTW.....you have a great website and you have the best prices on stag uppers. (smile)

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

wewex, do not confuse the original Prince50 magazine lock with the new Prince50 Bullet Button. The original Prince50 is the one with the set screw. With that magazine lock, you MUST pivot open the upper receiver and load from the top. Loosening the set screw on a Price50 rifle with evil-features would create a felony situation as you would have just created an Assault Weapon. The reason is because you can then remove magazines without the use of a tool. Do not ever do this while in California.

Conversely, with the Bullet Buttton, you can just insert a bullet tip to drop the magazine and reload with a new magazine. You can do this over and over again and the weapon is not in an Assault Weapon state as it ALWAYS requires a tool to remove the magazine. The key language here is in the "capacity to accept a detachable magazine". A detachable magazine is defined as one that can be removed without the use of a tool. Think about what happens when you loosen the set screw on the Prince50 - it now operates as a normal magazine release. You can insert and drop the magazine over and over again until you tighten up that set screw. In that mode it MOST DEFINITELY has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine - a big no-no in the state of California if the rifle also has other evil features. With the Bullet Button, you ALWAYS have to use the tool to drop the magazine, therefore at NO TIME does it ever have the capacity to accept a detachable magazine. Make sense?

And yes, Joe makes a good point. a featureless rifle with a U-15 or MonsterMan grip can have a normal magazine release without having to deal with the issue above. The trade off is that you have a slightly funny looking AR-15 but at least you can reload it with ease.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

U r awesome David,Thanks you so much!!! now i am 100% back on track and now exactly what's legal and what's not,in my good old state od CA. Thanks to all who helped me!!!

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

man i should have used spell check,lol

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

David, in the image your Ar-15 at the top of the page, I noticed you have what looks like a 10 round magazine with a 20 round body. I have seen alot of CA Legal AR-15s with it and it resembles Bushmasters 5 round hunting mag, could you tell me where to get one.
-Thanks, Shooter

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Thats the old style Bushmaster 10 round magazine in 20 round body. These are great magazines but very hard to find now as Bushmaster discontinued them and now have the short 10 round magazines that are made by C Products.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Oh, ok thanks for the info, I have several of the C products 10 rounders and they all work great with my rifle and the bullet button.
-Thanks, Shooter

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Can an AR-15 type (currently on the AW list) that was bought prior to the ban, but not registered as an AW, be retrofitted with the prince lock and thus be considered immediately legal and therefore transferable in CA?

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Jack,

This has come up before. The short answer is no. There is no provision in the law for taking a listed assault weapon and making it legal by adding a magazine lock. Listed weapons are covered under Category 1 Assault Weapons that are named by make and model. The best you could probably do in this case would be to buy an off-list lower receiver and salvage the upper, stock, and any other parts you can off the listed rifle.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Thanks for the info David. Very helpful.
Quick question, you mentioned that you see people shooting CA legal AR-15's at several ranges. Could you tell me which ranges so that when I do build mine up I'll know where to go?

Thanks in advance.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

I've shot mine at Burro Canyon in Azusa, CA and Angeles Range in Lake View Terrace, CA and an indoor range called On Target in Laguna Niguel. I went to Burro Canyon yesterday, as a matter of fact, and I saw two other AR style rifles. One guy was top-loading, another appeared to be a registered AW, and I was dropping mags with my Bullet Button.

I'm pretty sure that in nearly every range they really only care that you are being safe and following the range master's instructions.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

I have a Stag Arms 3H rifle coming next week with the Bullet Button installed. It will arrive with a 10 round mag. My question is, I have three 30 round magazine I have owned before 2000. Can I use these magazines for my AR-15? Can I put in more than 10 rounds?

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Eric,

You MUST not put a magazine with a capacity larger than 10 rounds in a fixed magazine rifle. As crazy as that sounds it would make it an Assault Weapon. I can't locate the text right now but I am sure that is the case. If you have pre-ban 30 rounders I would build a "featureless" rifle with a MonsterMan grip so I could use those 30 rounders without a magazine lock. You can post this question on www.calguns.net and I'm sure someone can cite you as to why you cannot use the large capacity mags in a fixed mag rifle.

David

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

WHERE CAN I FIND A DEALER THAT WILL SELL NON LISTED LOWERS?

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

It depends on what area you are in. Either ask on www.calguns.net or just call some of your local dealers and ask if they sell or will transfer one in for you.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

i'm in the process of building a CA legal ar15 right now for my wife (i have a pre-ban registered one), but purily out of curiosity it has been said in previous posts that there have been some arrests made and then the cases thrown out. Does anyone know the circumstances under which these arrests were made, like did officers check their weapons at a range? Or did these people commit some other crimes and then their rifles were discovered and additional charges added on? The reason I ask is that I mostly shoot outdoors on public lands designated for target practice, and I can't really imagine an officer coming over to check the legal status of my firearms whilst i'm holding both a loaded primary and secondary? In fact I only ever see border patrol or park rangers, depending where I go, and they will never stop.

# WHERE CAN I FIND A DEALER THAT WILL SELL NON LISTED LOWERS?

Irvington Arms in Fremont has lowers for sale. Good luck.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

I presently own a Calif legal AR15 built by Vulcan Armament. It has a fixed mag and I would like to install a Prince bullet button. For the life of me I cannot figure out how to remove the mag that is installed. The magazine catch button is solidly in place and cannot be pushed in. Can anyone tell me how to remove this without resorting to drilling it out. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks Mike D

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

you should get in touch with Vulcan to see what can be done... The Bushmaster Carbon rifles have a fixed mag, with the well sealed up- It might be easier to pick up an OLL and parts kit to move you upper on to.

cm

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

I know a few guys on calguns.net have converted the Vulcans. I would post a question on that forum and someone with some real experience with that rifle may be able to shed some light on what is going on with the magazine release.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

i live in arizona and bought a AR-15 and i plan on moving back to california. Can i just get a off list receiver and use the upper and stock from the one i own now.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

@Eddie
Absolutely, just make sure you are legal with your evil features. If you have a flash-hider, collapsible stock, pistol-grip, or forward vertical grip, then just install a Bullet Button magazine lock. I sell them on my site for $25.00. Join www.calguns.net and ask questions there to make sure your configuration is 100% legal.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

That's awesome. How much did it cost to build just out of curiosity if you don't mind me asking??

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Cozmo, a setup like this one, which has quite a few upgrades from a standard AR, would probably run about $1100 without the optics. You can build a basic, no-frills AR with all new parts for around $700-800.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

I am a Arizona Resident but I currently reside in California on bussiness and am thinking of moving back to California. I am in the process of building an AR 15 but I noticed that I could use the 6.8 insted of the 5.56. Since I do alot of hunting would the 6.8mm be a better choice for Javalina and maybe some deer?

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Alvaro,

6.8 would definitely have more knock down power than the 5.56. Up to around 200 yards it pretty much has the same ballistic characteristics as 5.56 as well. You may want to check ammo price and availability as a factor as well - although it is all pretty much expensive these days! You could also just swap the upper and mag if you wanted to switch back and forth from 5.56 and 6.8

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

I just wanted to suggest J and J Armory for Off List Lowers (OLL) to anyone in the O.C. and south L.A. area as they were recommended to me by David (the blogger) via phone. J and J Armory had great prices on Stag OLLs around $160 (CMMG $170) at the time of this posting which is slightly higher than internet prices BUT after you factor in a FFL fee and shipping, is equal in cost with LESS hassle if you are in the aforementioned location. The guys at J and J will take the time to explain to you what you need to make your rifle work. They are a small operation and have all you need including great info but are a little more pricey on the rest of your assembly (Uppers, lower parts kits). I would recommend getting your OLL receiver from them and heading over to David's site "riflegear.com" to save a little on the rest of your assembly. You may be afraid to build your own rifle but a) building it from scratch will teach you how your firearm works and b) is really easy with a wealth of building info on the net and videos on youtube. Thanks for the recommendation David!

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

I just turned 19 and have built 2 AR-15 style weapons. I love the style of this weapon, and hope to add many accessories to the rifles. Building these systems not only gives a small discount on parts and labor, but also gives you the upper edge at maintaining and adjusting the weapon. I live in the fremont area and have purchased the majority of my parts through Irvington Arms in Fremont, CA. These guys have been a great help at getting parts. I think they even offer a course on assembly. Building is amazingly easy and fun! If I can build these things, then anyone can. If I had to recommend any manufacturers I would have to recommend Rock River Arms, they seem to have decent equipment. If anyone has any questions or needs any help building, feel free to give me a call at 307-690-9925, I would be happy to help.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

i've built a couple AR's, SR's, and AK's. They are easy to build. If you run into any trouble there's enough information online to help you through it. I picked up my lowers, CMMG and POF, from gun shows. Then always use DPMS lower parts kits, they are the best by far, smoother triggers!! For uppers my preference goes to Rock River, Vulcan, and if you can afford it POF cause they got the new gas piston uppers. One thing about POF, despite what they advertise about being all-American they are a subsidiary of Pakistan Ordinance Factory (a licensed producer of HK guns), which might be an issue to some. I personally don't care because they make really good quality stuff but their uppers run about $1200 as opposed to like $500 for other brands, however in my opinion the gas piston system is worth it. There are some other manufacturers that are starting to make gas piston system but i'm not sure about their quality. For any accessories is usually go for command arms products, in my opinion by far the best. Oh yeah for you lefties, STAG makes left handed uppers. For 30rd mags you can drive to Arizona, but you don't wanna get caught with them. I use the 10/30 mags.


I personally use the bullet button, however when I go shoot on public lands I switch it out with a normal mag release because its hard to run drills and stress shoots with a bullet button.

Also I wanna recommend Cold War Shooters at www.coldwarshooters.net, they are awesome when it comes down to CA legal stuff. They got this kid who looks about 12yrs old (he's much older really) who develops all sorts of modifications to make most rifles CA legal. I got FN FS2000 from them recently with a gas block in it so that it essentially becomes a bolt action rifle, making it legal for sale. The gas block was easily removed. The main thing when dealing with them is finding a FFL in your area that will accept the transfer. Most FFL's don't understand all the laws and thus stay away from anything assault rifle related. Cold War Shooter will usually refer you to an FFL, in my case a guy working out of his garage.

In addition you guys should know that any cops outside Los Angeles ARE NOT ALLOWED TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT YOUR WEAPON IS CALIFORNIA LEGAL. They are not trained to do so and therefore cannot make any arrests based on this. What they can do is confiscate your weapon, send it to the armory where you weapon is examined, and then charges might be filed at a later date. But even then, the only reason why cops would be looking at you weapons is if you break the law in the first place. Cops aren't gonna walk up to you at a range or on public lands designated for shooting when you are standing there with loaded weapons. In my experience, the only reason why they come over is to shoot your stuff cos you got the coolest rifles on the range.

Finally, if you really wanna have to some good stuff just apply for your own FFL. All you really need is a clean record, an address, and an approved safe.


Damn I wrote too much, hope any of this info was useful

Mike R

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

reall quick addition. the info about cops not being allowed to make determinations about came from a gun dealer and several LE friends of mine agreed, but I never researched the exact laws about this.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

I want my Ar-15 to look like exactly likes yours and this is my first time trying to build/look for parts for a cal. legal ar-15. Can you tell me exactly what parts/brand you used? I would be greatly thankful.

jay

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

jay,

Stag Arms Lower and lower parts kit
CMMG 14.5" lightweight upper with permanent phantom flash-hider
PRI Gas Block/Flip Sight
Midwest Industries two-piece free float forearm
Midwest Industries rear flip sight
Magpul CTR stock
TangoDown Battlegrip and Vertical grip
EOTech 511 holographic sight
Magpul enhanced trigger guard
Magpul rail panels
Stag ambi-selector
Bullet Buttom magazine lock

I think that is about it.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

thanks man...also i wanted to know more about the mini 14/30 fusion rifle system. It says it comes with a T6 stock (adjustable stock) dues that come under "collapsible stock"? Also I was looking at http://www.ruger-mini-14-firearms.com/mini_14_30_accessories.php, under number 9 SCAR. What do you think? 16" is the legal lenth of a a riffle in CA right? Thank's once again

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Jay,

You would have to have a way to fix the magazine on the Mini-14 so that it requires a tool to remove it if you want to be able to have a pistol grip and collapsible stock on the Mini-14. Personally I think the CA-Legal version of that stock looks nice and that is the one I would get. I am not aware of anyone making a magazine lock kit for the Mini-14 so you need to avoid any pistol grip, collsible, or thumb-hole stock for that rifle. For just a little more money you can build a CA-legal AR that will be more accurate than any Mini-14 and you can have all the cool tactical accessories you want because it is easy to make it a fixed magazine rifle by just adding a $25.00 Bullet Button.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

I have been working on an 80% machined lower forging. I want to put all of my stock, pre-ban Colt 6520 items on that lower and install the Bullet Button. Once it is all put together, does it need to be registered at all or in some way? I read somewhere that for it to be fully legal, I need to emboss the lower with whatever I want to the reg number to be and then have it registered with that reg as a legal rifle. If it doesn't need to be registered, will I ever have to show any kind of paperwork if questioned? Just to clarify, 80% lowers fall in the same category as off-list lowers?

Regards,
Jeremy

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Jeremy,

Registering would only be requried for an Assault Weapon and that was only possible for a brief time before Jan 1st, 2000. It is impossible now to create a class 1, 2, or 3 assault weapon and register it. Your best bet on this project would be to use a magazine lock and make sure your rifle follows all the requiremetns (10 round mag, barrel length of 16" or greater, over all length of 30", etc...)

I'm sorry but I do not know the law in regards to creating your own receiver. I would start a thread on www.calguns.net and ask there and I am sure you will find out all you need to know.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Dave: I saw the rifle you built for your wife, it is without a doubt the neatest AR I've seen. I have 4 AR's with 2 of them set up just for varmint hunting and the other 2 just for shooting at targets and plinking. I sure wish I could get my wife to enjoy shooting, I would build her 1 something on the style you did for your wife. I have also purchased an Survival Rifle the old
AR-7 style from Henry Firearms and have installed a bull barrel with a barrel shroud on it, and installed an A2 buttstock and pistol grip on it. It looks very much like an miniture AR-15. As a topper for it I have installed a 3-9x32 scope on it. I had a guy come up to me at the range a couple of weeks ago as I was screwing on the barrel shroud and asked if it was some special type of target rifle. With the bull barrel it shoots a lot better then with the standard Henry plastic/steel lined barrel it came with. It will keep within 1" at 50 yards.


Bob

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

ok i have a ar10 ap4 308 what are the thing i kneed to get

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

if some one knows what parts i kneed plz email me eddiesied1@yahoo.com

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

I am told that the Rock River CAR A4 AR15 can be transferred into Ca. so long as it has the "bullet button" installed instead of the mag release. Do you know anything about this?

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Bart: You are correct. I have a Rock River AR15 A4 Varmint rifle and all I had to have done before having it transferred to my FFL dealer was have the Bullet Button Mag release installed. Also have a Stag 3 with the 6 position carbine buttstock with a Prince 50 Bullet Mag Lock. The Stag I have to break open and load from the top. The Rock River I just use a bullet to release the mag and let it drop. Both are CA legal.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

I've got a Vulcan CAL1 with a fixed lower receiver, is it legal for me to make the rifle "featureless" first and then disassemble the magazine catch and all that? I was told by a law enforcement officer that if the receiver came with a fixed mag it would be illegal to modify it.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Jake: Once you remove what is holding the "fixed" magazine in your AR it is techincally no longer CA legal according to its certification by CA DOJ and your letter from Vulcan stating it as CA legal is voided. If you have to do this modification, I would strongly suggest that you contact the people at calgun.net and run it pass them before y ou do anything. I also would suggest that if you go through with the modification that you install a bullet button and keep a low profile. If you're at a one of your local ranges I would continue to load from the top as it was designed, just in case there are some local law enforcement using the range at the same time. Then if you are out on some BLM land then go ahead and drop your mag. Oh yeah, don't have any extra mags with you as this would lead them to look a little closer. I hope this helps and good luck.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Folks...I recently returned to CA with a Mini-14 purchased in CA around 1990 and several 30-round magazines purchaed about the same time. Since they are 'grandfathered' can I continue to use? Thanks!

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Herbert,

I don't think you can legally bring the 30 rounders back into the state even though you bought them before the ban. I would suggest joining www.calguns.net and searching/asking there.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Finally. Simple explanations and procedures without the cloak and dagger runaround routine. For this display of courtesy and professionalism, i will shop here, thanks!

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

If you have a built w/off list lower, registered ar-15 with a bb 10rd mag and you have the registered #
with you is it still possible your ar could be confiscated by law enforcement.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

greg,

An off-list AR would not be registered, registration ended in 2000 and if you did not register your rifle at that time you cannot do it now. An off-list AR, properly configured is indeed legal, but there is no guarantee you will not be arrested or hassled by a law enforcement office that is ignorant of these complex laws. It would be in your best interest to be able to competely explain why your rifle is legal should that situation ever arise. The situation is getting better all the time, however, as these are becoming more and more common with tens of thousands of them having been imported into the state in the last few years. Also, the fact that every case with a properly configured OLL has been dropped also works in our favor as the legality becomes more well known amount the CA county DAs. There is however still a slight risk involved and you must be willing to accept that risk if you intend to play in this arena.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

David: I've been seeing a lot of talk about the bullet button and the detachable magazine issue and "evil" features such as pistol grip and adjustable stock. A guy on Lee.org is rasing the issue that this could be illegal according to the confusing DOJ definition and what Bill Weise has stated on calguns.com. Lee the guy who runs the blog is getting rather testy and irratated by the question, but is willing to review and get back to the guy rasing the issue. I'm a firm believer that the bullet button is legal, however the guy is making a good case about it not being. I would be very interested if you would be so kind to review this issue (proberly for the 100th time). I have a couple of rifles with the bullet button, one with a pistol grip and fixed stock, the other has one of the cool looking U-15 stocks.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Bob,

I replied to his posts over on lee.org. His mistake is that he is focusing on the definition of "Magazine, Fixed" but the one that is mentioned in the actual penal code is "Magazine, Detachable". The definition of a fixed magazine is irrelevant as that is not mentioned in the penal code that lists the banned features.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

David: I read your response to Patriot over on Lee.org. I thought your explination was right on target. I just wish people would stop bringing up this subject and move on with building their rifles. By the way the rifle for your wife is off the 10 scale. Brilliant idea and excellent workmanship.

Thanks for responding and clearing up the confusion.
McCain in 08

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

David,

I talked with the DOJ the other day here in Sacramento, and you can register an AR with an OLL with the proper magazine lock, etc. According to them, the registration that ended in 2000 as well as other past dates and amnesties thatwe're all aware of was for "assault rifles." The rifles we are talking of building in this forum and the one of yours pictured at the top of this forum are not "assault rifles" by CA definition and can be registered simply as "rifles" as long as they meet the legal criteria that does not make them "assault rifles." He went on to say that the advantage of registering the rifles is that they will be grandfathered in like "assault rifles" were since there are ongoing attempts by legislature to include OLL's and 0-80% forgings in the bans. He also said that the Bullet Button is currently "very gray" and that the current philosophy specifically within Sacramento County is to confiscate AR style rifles regardless of their features. You will not be arrested or go to jail as long as the rifle has legal features, but there is a high likelihood that you will not get your rifle back. This is information directly from the DOJ, and specifically from an individual at the DOJ who is an avid collector of AR and similar style rifles. Unless he is an extremely uninformed individual, I am apt to believe him.

Regards,
Jeremy

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Bob,

I actually like the idea of continuing to talk about the laws as I'm building my AR(s) if it means keeping my butt out of Federal Prison for the next two to ten. The laws can be so confusing and subject to so much interpretation, especially here in CA. All it would take is to have the wrong hammer or disconnector in your homebuilt rifle and you're done if it gets into the hands of a well-informed armorer at the ATF who's inspecting your rifle after it was confiscated. I've actually ordered semi-auto internal kits that have had the auto bolt carrier and other M16 pieces in them by accident. If I hadn't known the difference, they'd be in a rifle. It happens. I prefer to be well-informed. Just my two bits.

Regards,
Jeremy

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Jeremy,

I don't doubt that is what the DOJ told you but you need to weigh what they said with their true objectives. If they told you something was a "gray area", that means it is legal. If it were illegal they would say so. They tried to "clarify" what a "proper" fixed magazine is once before and failed miserably and were forced to take down their notice (they tried to claim that the magazine well had to be welded shut). There is no registration required for non-assault weapons and any registration period for true Assault Weapons ended in 2000. I would not give them that information and this is the first I have heard about any sort of pre-registration being requried to be "grandfatheried in" should they pass new legislation. Should they pass new legislation banning off-list lowers, they most likely would be required to open a new registration period at that time. I personally would not give them any information about legal rifles that I own - that is asking for trouble. Please, if you have not done so already, join www.calguns.net and post this information in the "Riflemans Forum". I'm sure it will spark lots of good discussion from those "in the know" about what is going on in Sacramento.

David

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Jeremy: Very interesting information regarding the DOJ. I didn't mean to be negative but after so many people going over the same subject it just gets to be like it is routine. I would have to agree with David about being cautious regarding giving out your inofrmation to the DOJ. New registration would require another round of new registration for our semi automatic rifles. The best way we can keep new legistration against our rifles / guns is to vote the anti gun group out of office. Last weekend I was at my local range and there had to be 4 or 5 of us with AR's. I spoke to one guy who was looking into building his own and he was telling us that he has contact with a lot of our local police officers and they are not up to speed as to what is legal and what is not (sound familar?) Their response is to confinscate and let their experts determine if you will get your rifle back. With that in mind, it's best just to keep a low profile and don't bring attention to your collection.


McCain in 08

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Bob,

I didn't think you were being negative. It does get old, but unfortunately this is a topic that probably could and will go on forever. And I do think it's necessary, and I learn a lot from forums such as these. In a sick way, it is interesting since most if not all of it is so absurd. And don't worry about me, I have no intention of registering any of my AR style rifles. I have enough registered with "them" as it is. I'm just presenting information that I hope stresses the legality of these rifles and what we're trying to do here. I'm a pessimist when it comes to CA legislation. If you look at current trends in CA regarding every other aspect of our lives, it is only going to get worse here and not better (until it comes to a head). One of our best hopes for the repeal of current bans, etc. is in office right now and nothing is being done. Our only other and best hope is to elect Tom Selleck as our next governor. Let's get the paperwork started.

Regards,
Jeremy

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Hello,

I have a question i am thinking of buying a AR-15 from www.lanworldinc.com. What do you think about them are there rifles up to date with the California law. They have some that are fixed mag with bullet bottam mag lock. I seen a AR-15 rifle that is so on atlanticfirearms.com that is approved by the DOJ. What is the different between the two i think the one of them has prince 50 mag lock then the other. Can anyone help with some info.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Sam: I have purchased 2 complete AR-15's, a Stag model 3 and a Rock River Varmint LAR-15 and 1 Stag AR-15 lower with A2 buttstock from Chris at Lanworldinc. I really don't believe you can go wrong working with him. Chris is very much in the know regarding California law as he specializes in California customers.

The CA DOJ approved guns at Atlantic are top load guns only, meaning you have to break them open each time to load up the magazine as they have fixed mags. The Vulcan AR-15 has the mag revitted which makes it fixed, the DPMS is a single shot unit with a internal one round mag and the Bushmaster Carbon 15 is a carbon resin unit with a fixed internal mag.
Of all the CA DOJ approved rifles the Vulcan is the best looking as I believe they use a 10/20 rd mag. (holds 10 rds in a 20 rd body)

I have one of the Carbon 15's from Bushmaster which was my first AR-15. The purchase price of the Carbon 15 puts it a couple hundred dollars more then a Stag model 3. I also had Chris do my complete Stag model 3 with a Prince 50 mag lock. These rifles are kind of pain to reload. My other rifle is a Rock River Varmint rifle which I had Chris fit with a bullet button so I can drop the mag. I did install a U15 buttstock on it also. I use this rifle to hunt with. The lower I got from Chris is a Stag A2 in 223 and I went with a bullet button on it.

You can't beat the prices from Lanworldinc. If you go to Lee.org website you can see my rifles as a posted a couple photos of them. Do take in consideration, the CA DOJ has not approved the bullet buttons offically and may never will. Like David says "there is a risk owning these types of rifles".

Best of luck and happy shooting....

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

David: Is there a way to post pictures on this thread? I have an AR-7 that I customized to look like a mini AR-15 that I would like to post.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Bob,

You cannot post pictures but you can include a link in your post. This blog entry isn't really meant as a picture thread but as a way to help people to learn about building a CA legal AR-15. A better place to post pictures would be in the Picture Gallery on www.calguns.net: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/forumdisplay.php?f=120

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Dave: Thanks for the information regarding photo's. I'll see if I can post my photo's of my AR-15's and my AR-7.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Is it possible to build a California legal AR-15 pistol in any configuration?
Gee thanks by the way because of you I now have to either find a hello kitty weapon of some sort of have one custom done.
Seems the wife who has hello kitty EVERYTHING! including a toaster and a hello kitty Stratocaster now wants a Hello kitty gun!
LMAO well at least she is more interested in going to the range now ;)

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

CA considers a semi-auto pistol with the magazine anywhere other than inside the pistol grip to also be an "Assault Weapon". So what people are doing is disabling the gas system and making it a bolt-action pistol by using the charging handle after each round.

# re: AR-15 Pistol

do you know if broom handle Mauser's get around this because of the magazine is fixed or because they are some sort of curio and relic?

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

I'm not sure but I imagine that could be purchased as a C&R because of it's age.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Thanks my friend

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

how much to build a CA legal AR. low and high end?

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Low end would be around $750.00 and high end could be around $2,500.00 and even more with nice optics.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

thanx david thinkin about building one

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Hi everyone,

I was just wondering, if I applied for a FFL or a Assault Weapons Permit would using a fixed clip or a sb23 featureless rifle be necessayr?

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Not sure what "Assault Weapons Permit" you are referring to. As far as I know you cannot get one except there is an exception for active duty military (although I am not 100% clear here). Just getting an FFL does not allow you to legally own an AW. In general, unless you owned it prior to Jan 1 2000 and registered it during the now long-closed registration window, you are SOL and can only legally acquire a rifle that is not banned by name and that does not violate the feature restrictions.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Hi i was just wondering, im planning to build a ar15 but in .22lr. Im planning to build it as a mil style m4 (pistol grip, tele stock bird cage, forward grip, and detachable mag) , but does this fall under the ban? As far as i understand it only refers to center fire rifles

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Thats right - rimfire is exempt from the evil feature ban.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

want to know if this is a good buy


http://www.coldwarshooters.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=27&products_id=430&zenid=0de198e862394163b71e7683506423b3

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Yes, that is a good price. CWS are good people. You will need to install a Bullet Button in that before adding a centerfire upper receiver assembly into it.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

thanks for the info cant wait to get started

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

I think I found the best solution for this debaucle...Move. My reciever and I are going to get while the getting is good. someplace cooler, without the smog. Until then, I think I'll be using the advice posted here...
Thanks.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Hi David,
I had a question about your 14.5" CMMG upper. I'm a pretty green behind the ears about all this and am not privy to all the terms. It may sound stupid but are you saying that you have a 14.5 inch barrel? I'm only asking b/c I wanted to build an "M4-gery" and would like to go with a 14.5" barrel length. I've been doing some digging and it says that if I went with a barrel length shorter than 16" I would have to file NFA paperwork and ask permission from the BATF and give them 200 bucks for the 'privilege.' Is this all true? I didn't think 1.5" would make such a difference. Thanks,

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Steve,

My barrel has a phantom flash-hider that is permanently installed (i.e. pinned and welded) which makes the total length of the barrel a legal 16". Without it permanently attached you are correct that it would not be legal.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

thanks 4 the info David. U should start a monthly fliyer, to tun-up the understanding of the Cal law. Sign me up.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

is it possible to build an ar type pistol in california

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Kc: I don't think that will be possible due to the fact that the location for the mag is not in the handle as required for all semi auto pistols in CA. Check on Calguns.net and blog the question. A lot of people in the know subscribe to that website.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

It's possible to build a CA-Legal AR pistol but it must be a single-shot or bolt action, not semi-auto. The easiest way to do this is to disable the gas system so that you are forced to pull the charging handle to cycle the next round.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

David: Good point, forgot about making it a single shot by disabling the gas system. I was too focused on the magazine issue.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

I just wanted to mention that if you live in the SF area, City Arms always seems to have Spike's and Stag of the list lowers in stock.

In addition the staff at our only gun range, Jackson Arms, say that people come in all the time with AR15 and AK47 cali-legal rifles, but that they DONOT recommend detaching your magazine at any time, regardless of the kind of magazine lock being employed. This is due to the number of law enforcement officials that are always at the range and the gray area of the bullet button thing.

They even went so far as to suggest that I avoid using the bullet button idea and just go with the original prince50 and always top load.

Since I live in super gun-unfriendly San Francisco, I think I'll follow they're advice after I begin by own build project this summer.

Great blog by the way!!

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Eve: good point about just leaving the bullet button alone and break open the rifle to load. When I'm at my local range that is exactly what I do. Who knows who is next to you. When I'm out on some BLM land I'll go ahead and drop the mag.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Let me get this this straight. If I get an "off-list" lower and install a bullet button with a 10 round mag the gun should clear the California regulations?

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

I wanted to know if the lower receiver you used in your pictures came with the external 10rd magazine already installed or did you make that modification yourself ? If it was already installed, would you mind telling me who manufactures it and where I might be able to purchase one ? I bought one of the early "FAB-10" lowers with the sealed mag well. I'd REALLY like to get one that has the fixed external magazine.

Thanks,

Mike

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Mike/JJ

The rifle pictures is using a standard off-list lower receiver made by Stag Arms. It has a standard 10 round magazine that is held in place with the "Bullet Button" magazine lock. I started with a stripped lower receiver, and added all the parts myself. It is really quite easy to build one of these from scratch and I would not recommend anyone use a sealed magwell lower like the "FAB-10" or the Bushmaster Carbon-15.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

David,

Thanks for the quick response. So let me make absolutely sure I understand all of this:

1. I can purchase a stripped "off list" lower receiver, let's say a Stag Arms STAG-15 Stripped Lower Receiver, from a company such as J and J Armory in California.

2. Purchase standard 10rd mags and install them using a magazine lock.

3. Assemble everything and I'm good to go in the state of California.

Is this accurate ?

Finally, I'd like to know what type of stock is shown in your picture as well as where I might find some 10rd mags in a 20rd body. I want to express many many thanks to you for taking the time to not only write up and excellent and informative blog, but also taking the time to answer questions. Looks like I'll finally be able to get rid of the old FAB-10 receiver. What a relief!

Thanks again,

Mike

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Mike,

You got it. The stock in the picture is a Magpul CTR collapsible stock. After you dros your lower receiver at J&J you should swing by our new location and check us out for the parts for the rest of your build. Give me a call if you have any more questions.

RifleGear.com
3303 Harbor Blvd. Suite D7
Costa Mesa, CA 92626
(949) 335-5410

David

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Just wanted to say thanks to David and riflegear.com for all of the help you've provided to me throughout my AR build. I've placed several orders from RifleGear, each was shipped very quickly and accurately.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Ok David i have a question. If you install a monster man grip and NOT a bullet button would it be considered legal in CA

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

If your centerfire rifle has a detachable magazine, then it cannot have ANY other of the banned features. This means no pistol grip (MonsterMan grip covers that), no flash-hider (you can use a muzzle break or just a plain thread protector), no vertical grip, no collapsible stock. If your rifle does not have ANY banned features, then you do not have to use a magazine lock. Please refer to the Calguns Assault Weapon Identification Flowchart - it is very easy to understand as it filters all the complexities of the laws into a simple to follow chart:

http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Ok thank you i understand. Now my only problem standing between me and an AR is the cold hard cash

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

want a ar 15 upper in 6.8 and want to know if the triangle sight that come on most guns removable, i want to put scope on it for hunting but not sure if that will get in the way. but would like to have some sort of front flip up sight maybe for back up. do you know what i can do to fix this. couldn't i just remove gas block triangle sight? or does it have to be there.? thanks

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Jordan, I just went through this myself. Yes, the front sight block can be removed via the two taper pins on the bottom, but you'll need to replace the gas block if you remove it.

That being said, the pins are factory pressed into the FSB, and I would recommend buying a taper pin starter punch and some kroil.

I replaced mine with the Midwest Industries Folding Sight Tower that I purchased here at riflegear.com for use with optics as well, though you can only barely see the FSB through your optics anyway (depending on the magnification).

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

I have just built my CA legal AR-15. It has Spike's tactical lower, the bullet button, 6 position stock, A2 flashider, and a bayonet lug. My question is, can I add a forward grip and still be CA legal even though it has the bayonet lug? I don't see the bayonet lug on your rifle above and now I am confused. Thanks, and sorry if you have already answered this question. By the way, your rifle looks awesome, but I think it would look better if it had a 10 round clip in a 30 round body.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

If you have a non-detachable magazine (which is what the Bullet Button is for) then you can have a collapsible stock, pistol and vertical grips, flash-hider, etc... Only if you have a regularly detachable magazine do you have to avoid all the other banned features. And for the record, the bayonet lug has NEVER been a banned feature in the California ban - that was a feature of the now-expired federal AW ban.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

I've read about half the blog so far and maybe you answered this question before but, If I put together my own AR when im done do i have to take it to get registered, (like if i bought a new weapon i'd have to wait 10 days and get a background check). And could you give me a link to where i can find a legal "flash hider" to affix to my barrel? Thx in advance!

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Buying the lower receiver is the same as buying any long gun - you get it from an FFL gun dealer and you wait 10 days on it like any other firearm. There is no "registering" of a rifle. If your rifle meets the definition of an "Assault Weapon" according to the CA gun laws, you have committed a felony unless you owned that rifle prior to 1/1/2000 and registered it at that time. You cannot build an "Assault Weapon" today in California and register it. What you can do is build a very similar weapon, but one that utilizes a magazine lock, such as the Bullet Button, and it does not meet the definition of an "Assault Weapon". If you use a magazine lock like the Bullet Button you can just use the standard flash-hider (or any other one). Your other option is to build one that does not contain ANY banned features. If you build it this way, you do NOT have to use a magazine lock. Read some of the links I posted above to get more details.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

ok so i am building my first AR15 rifle. here is the setup that i am going with,

Stag Arms 15 5.56mm lower receiver with U-15 stock (love removable magazine feature)

RRA Varmint 20" Upper receiver assembly .223 Wylde Chamber

ok so now my questions,

Should i do 20" or 24" barrel? I plan to use 5.56 NATO rounds.

with the use of the U-15 stock does this mean i can use 30 rnd mag?

is it ok to have a stag arms lower with a RRA upper? are they compatible?

what hand should be ordered and how do you identify left or right hand AR15's? my trigger finger is my right hand.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Ok so the way i am understanding this is, if you have a bullet button and the standard flash hider you can have pretty much any features on the rifle, (telescoping stock, pistol grip, rail mounts, and optics)?

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

who do you need to call or talk to, to get an "off list receiver" in California? i dont mean to sound stupid but i dont fully understand how I could get one to build my own AR-15 in CA.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Gary: Your project is real simple. To answer your questions.
1. 20" or 24" depends on what you are trying to accomplish. RRA 20" bull barrels will give you 3/4" MOA. The only thing you have to decide is how heavy do you want your rifle. 5.56 will have more pressure then .223. RRA Wylde handle both .223 and 5.56. If you plan to varmint hunt you'll find that most hunting loads are .223.
2. You would be safe to stay with 10 rd mags with the U-15 stock unless you are going to take your rifle out of state. It is illegal to sale a 30 rd mag in California. If you can get one out of state it is not illegal. However you can not bring it into the state without being illegal unless you have a permit from the CA DOJ. No need to have your rifle taken away by some un-educated LEO or BLM Ranger. (it's happen) There are some nice 10/20 and 10/30 mags out on the market.
3. Stag lowers and RRA uppers mate up real nice.
4. Right hand upper. FYI RRA doesn't make left hand uppers so it is a mute subject if you go with an RRA. Do plan on a wait for a RRA upper. Last I heard they were made to order.

Hope this answers your questions.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Gary: I just want to clarify that you can legally have 30 rd mags if you have had them before the 2000 ban with your set up as long as your rifle has the U-15 buttstock, and no evil items. I believe you could have the high cap mags given to you from a family member by inheritance. It would be best if you went to Calguns.net and pose this question.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

I’m stoked!

I realized that my AUG that’s really a USR is not on the named Banned list so if I make a shroud that covers the magazine
release with a hole in it so I have to use a bullet point, Alan wrench, or screw driver to remove it I’ll have a California compliant semi-auto rifle with a fixed magazine. I can take it out to play without risking a possible felony charge. I’ll cut one out of plastic to make a pattern then cut one out of sheet steel and form it. Should be rather easy. Up Yours! Gun Grabbers. Tiny

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Does anyone on here have a FFL dealer they could recommend for the Southern California area to buy the lower receiver? I would be very happy if anyone could help me with this!

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

H-Jed,

Here's an FFL that services the So Cal area:

J&J Armory (www.jandjarmory.powweb.com)

I'll post any others that I find.

Mike

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Hey. First off, thanks to eveyone who helped me find the lower receiver and other parts, much appreciated.

But if i want to register this weapon in CA, what should i do? Im going to build mine with the Bullet Button for the Fixed magazine piece of the law and have the pistol grip and collapsable stock. What can i do/What should i do to register this?

Thanks for your help in advance!

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

H-Jed,

I'm not sure what you mean by "register".. Once you DROS your off list lower receiver, you'll be good to go in the state of California. Hope this helps.

Mike.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Anyone,

Do any of the sites (e.g. Riflegear or Lan World or Cold War Shooter) sell the complete rifle (upper and lower) with the bullet button installed so it is CA legal or do I have to start with a lower and build myself?

thanks,
David Q

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Mike,

What do you mean by DROS my lower receiver?

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

When you go to the gun store, you ask them for a lower receiver, they take one out. You start the paper work on it and wait your 10 days. That's the only piece that is really considered a firearms. The rest are just parts.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

O ok, Thanks for clearifying that for me!

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

I have a question that I forgot to ask regarding loading/unloading your CA legal AR-15 at a rifle range:

Let's say I've installed the bullet button and I've emptied my 10rnds. Is it legal for me to use the tip of a cartridge to release the mag and slap in a new one ? The reason I ask is because I've read some discussions where having an OLL with an empty magwell and a pistol grip is illegal, even if it's just for a second.

Thanks,

Mike M.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

On some magazine locking devices such as the Raddlock, the ads state, "Not Approved by Calif. DOJ." Is this simply something the manufacturers' lawyers make them do or is there more to it?

If someone has a rifle that has no manufactured mag locking device available, but has a machinist/gunsmith machine up a device similar in function to a bullet button or Raddloc, will this meet regs? There are a number of guns out there that have no commercial device is available to make the mag release tool operated.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

All of the magazine locking devices are made by 3rd party manufacturers - most small shops or individual gun enthusiests that designed them to both help the CA gun owner and to make a profit. DOJ approval is not needed, nor is it given. What is important is that it allows the gun owner to have a legal centerfire rifle "as written in the letter of the law". The disclaimer is provided by the mfg of these devices so that you know there is still a slight risk using these devices. The risk is not that they are illegal, the risk is that an ignorant law enforcement officer or DA may not realize it is legal and try to prosecute you. The occurance of this happening is getting more rare these days as every case has been dropped and the LEO's and DA's are becoming much more aware of this fact as these types of rifles are becoming more and more common.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Mike M,

There is nothing in the penal code that says you cannot have an empty magazine well. The Bullet Button is *designed* to allow you to drop the magazine "with a tool", which IS written in the penal code. That is how I reload my Bullet Button equipped rifles when I am at the range. The "empty magazine well" talk is from the early days of the OLL when everybody was being extra cautious. It is now generally agreed that what is written in the penal code is met if you use a tool to detach the magazine as long as the tool is required EVERY TIME. You cannot just loosen the set screw on a Prince50, for example, as once you do that the magazine release can be activated with your finger - that would create an assault weapon. The use of a Bullet Button lock uses the TOOL to release the magazine, every single time, and therefore meets the legal requirement.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

great info. i'm in the process of building my first ar-15.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Hey Everyone,

I was reading through the posts and i noticed where it said, that a CA legal AR-15's has to be single fire, bolt action. I'm not sure if that is correct. Through all the research i've done on the subject, i've concluded that you can possess a semi-auto AR-15 legally. If anyone has any information to the contrary could you please post, because who really wants to chamber a round after every shot?

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Don't confuse discussions about an AR "pistol" with that of an AR style rifle. An AR style rifle can most certianly be semi-automatic in California, assuming it is "off list" and you are not violating the feature ban.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

GOT'CHA...I totally understand. I just wanted to be certain that it was legal to own a semi-auto AR-15 rifle. As a matter of fact I will be down there in Costa Mesa tomorrow to pick up my Stag 5H upper, and then swing by J/J to pay for my Stag OLL! See you Sat.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Ok Ive looked through this thread and have spent countless hours online trying to figure this one out. I own an AR rifel that I purchased when I was living in another state. a Bushmaster with all the bells and whistles. I dont have it in cali with me because of the strict gun laws. As far as The lower goes I understand that but can I use my upper as part of the build? Would that constitute a diffrent rifel? My next question is have you gottan any unwanted attention from law enforcment and how do you deal with that. I. E. If i built my own and decided to shoot it at a range would I catch any Flack from anyone? Thanks for your time it is greatly apreciated.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

https://www.riflegear.com/ShoppingCart.aspx?add=true&ReturnUrl=showproduct.aspx%3fProductID%3d49%26SEName%3dstag-arms-model-4h hey ima i all legal all i need is lower Receiver right and do u know any that are legal and not 200 if posible can you send me a cheap good legal one and how do i go about this just order all the stuff put it togeather and have a rife dont i got to reg it the 10 day wait i have rifles but none under my name how do u do this i have no idea do i take it somwere to get inspected to legallize it ?

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Mondo,

You can strip off and reuse all the parts from your Bushie that you want, except the lower receiver. Those are just parts and you can bring them into California and use them no problem. Off-list ar-style rifles are very common place these days and any range you go to that allows rifles is going to be fine with them.


Cody,

You have to buy the stripped lower receiver from a gun dealer, fill out the DROS paperwork, wait 10 days, etc... just like you would for any other gun. There is no need to have a rifle "inspected" or anything like that. You just add the parts you need to build it into a legal rifle and that is all there is to it. For a complete rilfe you will probably need the following items, although you can customize this list in an infinite number of ways:

Stripped off-list lower receiver (Stag, CMMG, Spike's, etc...)
Lower receiver parts kit (trigger, springs, pistol grip, etc...)
Complete stock assembly
Complete upper receiver assembly (barrel, bolt, sights, etc...)
Magazine Lock kit (Bullet Button, Prince50, B-15, etc...)

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

David do you assemble lower parts for customers, i.e. grip, lower parts, bullet button and if so how much would the nominal consideration be?

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Thanks For the info bro its a big relife that my invenstment wasnt a total loss. Now I know I might come off as lazy but im just so frustrated with trying to find information. Does anyone know of a place in so cal (preferably near Pomona) where they sell off list lowers. all the places i call say they cant help me. and being that the only expierence with ar rifels is my military issue and my beloved busshie what is a good off list lower to go with. Im not worried about the price as much as the quality of the lower. thanks again for your time you information Is greatly apreciated!

# 30" OAL ?

About the 30" OAL part of the CA law does the FS count as part of the OAL or not as with Fed law? Also I have a Bushmaster M17s Bullpup with the Bullet button it is 30" OAL would I be able to cut down the barrel by 2" if I used a 2.5" FS or Break ? The M17 will fall apart and not function without something screwed on to give barrel tension. Thanks Tiny

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Tiny,

The muzzle device counts towards the OAL if is permanently attached (blind pinned and welded). In CA the length of the barrel is less than 16" it must have a permanently attached muzzle device to bring the length to at least 16".

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Mondo,

I'm not sure about Pomona but search for Ammo Brothers in Cerritos or J&J Armory in Santa Ana - they both stock off-list AR receivers

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Can anyone tell me of an FFL that will accept a CA-legal AR or has them in stock near Fairfield in Northern Cal???

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

dose anyone know were i can buy a Stripped lower receiver in or near reding ca or is thire a way that i can get it off the internet and do the 10 day wait thing i have no idea about this

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

I have pre ban 30 round M16 magazines dated 1991. When is it legal to use them in CA?

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

You can get a CA-Legal AR15 from any FFL, I saw a CA legal Bushmaster AR-15 in stock at Huntingon's Sporting Goods in Oroville, CA. in Northern CAL.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Slightly off topic (AK) but quick question. If I have a registered CA assault rifle can I change out the thumb-hole stock to a pistol grip and still stay CA legal? (sorry if this topic was covered and I missed it)

Thanks

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Hi I'm building an ar-15 with a detachable clip. I'm having trouble finding an upper reciever whithout a flash hider. I clicked on your link and I really love the CMMG 16" Specter Upper. I'm not sure if that has the flash hider on it or not. I want an upper with the 4 rails on each side so if I do move out of state I will be able to trick it out however I want. This is my first ar and I'm trying to find out as much as possible before I buy everything. I have already gotten the essential arms stripped lower. I cant really find any sites that have uppers deticated to the cali legal detachable mag ar. If you got any info that could lead me in the right direction that would be great. Thanks.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

David,

I am active duty military flight instructor living in Texas. I just bought a RRA CAR-A4 and also just found out that I will be stationed in California next. I realize that I can bring my AR-15 to California with my military orders, but I'd rather just have it CA legal rather than have to register it with DOJ. Since the RRA CAR-A4 is on the banned list, is there any way I can make this CA legal before moving? Can I buy a new RRA lower (off list), attach my existing upper, and attach the permanent 10 round magazine and be CA legal? Or would I be better off selling my CAR-A4 and just buying a RRA LAR-15 mid-length complete rifle that's not on the banned list? Thanks.

Kelly

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Wow, lots of posts to respond to...

@Cody & David - I'm not sure - just call around and ask dealers. You can also post this question on www.calguns.net to get a more direct answer from people in those areas

@Danny - If you have had those "large-capacity" magazines in your possession in CA since before the 2000 ban you can legally use them in either a registered assault weapon or any rifle that does not meet the definition of Assault Weapon according to CA laws. This usually means a rifle without evil features (no pistol grip, etc...) You CANNOT use anything over 10 rounds in a "fixed magazine" rifle.

@Unknown - the "CA-Legal" bushmaster is a top-loading variety made from carbon fiber. These rifles are generally avoided in favor of one made legal with a magazine lock.

@Bud - a thumbhole stock is just as "evil" as a pistol grip according to the CA laws. Since you said this rifle is a registered assault weapon, you can do whatever you want with it as long as the barrel is 16" long and the overall length with stock folded or collapsed is at least 30".

@Rich - the flash-hider is easily removed and can be replaced with either a thread protector or a muzzle brake (both OK in california). Give us a call and we can discuss a customized upper for you and any other questions you have about CA legalities.

@Kelly - the most cost effective way would be to just buy a lower receiver that is off-list (such as Stag, CMMG, etc...) and transfer your upper, stock, grip, trigger, etc... to the new lower. Add a Bullet Button to it and you can legally bring that rifle into CA. If you are not up to the task of transferring all the lower parts (and removing a couple roll pins, which would require some punches) then just buy a completed off-list lower receiver (which usually includes the stock) and just sell your existing completed lower to someone in TX.

David

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

My local dealer will sell OLL's to people he KNOWS and TRUSTS . He doesn't want them turning up on the 5;00 news.
He knows that law abiding citizens are the best gun owners. To turn a phrase:" A recently released felon with a paring knife is more of a threat than a law abiding citizen with a fully functioning gun machine". This is VERY true !
If you want to feel SAFE and live in a country that doesn't allow ANY guns..................move to Mexico.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

What about purchasing a 14.5 upper online and getting it pinned by a local gunsmith? Is this OK? Perhaps purchasing it prior to everything else to make it the first and only component of your build to avoid the technicality of having an unregistered SBR?

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

does any one know all the compines that the AR15 is legal in california because my friend has a few in Washington state and he wants to bring them to Cal. but he doent know if they are Cal. legal

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

@AR-Interested
That would be fine - there is no "constructive posession" in CA, although there may be some federal issues I am not familiar with. I am not a lawyer so double check anything I suggest here. Seriously though, I would just order one from the mfg already pinned - I recommend CMMG uppers.

@BigBJ
There is not a list of "legal" ARs, but there is a list of illegal ones - http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/infobuls/kaslist.pdf
Even if the rifle you have is not on the list, you STILL have to make sure it is not configured illegally. This basically means you add a magazine lock to it, such as the Bullet Button, or you configure it with a non-pistol grip and no other evil features. Please refer to all the links and information in my original posting above.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Hi David, I was wondering if you could recommend a good upper receiver that would match well with a DSA lower receiver, I'm assuming it's the DSA ZM4. I'm an LEO in southern California and am purchasing a CA legal model for my personal use. After shopping around, my local gun dealer gave me a price of $1050 out the door. This includes fees, taxes and all pieces necessary, including the original prince 50. I'll have my choice of a stagg upper or a DSA upper to match the lower. Which would you recommend and which model? Does this seem like a reasonable price? Thanks for your help.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Hi David;
Thank you for all the patient replies you have posted, they are very helpful. Can you confirm with a simple "yes" or "no" the following:

1) No lower that is listed in the ban can ever be configured legally in CA with a bullet button. (if you use all the evil features: pistol grip, adj. stock...)

2) Any non-listed lower can be legally assembled in CA as long as it has a "tool-released" magazine.

The reason I go over this is I was looking to see if I could get a "listed" AR in Nevada, then change the stock/grip back to the non-evil type when I come home to CA. Or take a listed AR and install a bullet button before coming back. (This is all assuming I have residence in NV....)

Thank you
-RLS

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

RLS,

There is nothing you can do to a listed rifle to make it in a legal configuration for CA. You will have to go with one of the off-list models.

You can go with either a bullet button style magazine lock (or one of the similar devices) or go with a "featureless" build, using a MonsterMan grip, or U-15 stock, and no flash-hider, no vertical grip, no collapsible stock, etc...

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

I have a question? If I bought a rifle say a Smith &Wesson MP-15 from out of state and sent the seller a Bullet button and ten round magazine. Once installed it would be a California legal rifle that could be shipped to my local FFL Wouldn’t it?

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Tiny,

Yes. I know of a vendor that has about a dozen S&W MP-15 complete lowers coming to his shop in CA. I'm sure he will sell you one with a Bullet Button installed. Contact Wes at www.tenpercentfirearms.com - tell him David from riflegear sent you.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Hi David, thanks for some QA before, i went head and started a 22 project. I had a marked .22lr lower built and completed without a upper, would that be considered "legal"? Although its marked as a .22lr but its built of course like a detachable mag ar15. Thanks again

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Andrew,

The CA "AR Laws" apply to centerfire rifles only, so with a rimfire cartridge you do not even have to use a magazine lock! You are still bound by the 10 round magazine limit, however, but other than that and the barrel length requirement you are good to go with all the "evil" features you want. The overall length of the rimfire rifle, with collapsed/folded stock must be 26"

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

What would be a good upper assembly to put on that S&W MP-15 complete lower you said your friend has for sale?

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Actually, if you can locate a S&W upper it is pretty nice and then you would have a complete S&W rifle. Other than that, I would recommend CMMG - I we sell several models of CMMG at www.riflegear.com. A step down from CMMG, but still very good for most shooters, would be something like Stag or RRA.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

If I were to build my own AR which would be my first would you recommend starting with a stripped lower and build it up my self with the parts I like or get a complete lower like Stag or S&W? If you do think building my own from a stripped lower is better what would be some of the better parts to go with. Or if a complete lower is the way to go,in your opinion what are some of the better ones? Thanks for help.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

I built my AR-15 lower receiver from instructions on the internet. I bought the stripped lower from a gun show and ordered the rest of the parts on the internet. The build was not hard at all and it was my first build as well. Here’s my blog post on the build:

http://www.isyougeekedup.com/building-an-ar-15-lower-receiver/

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Hi I ordered a LMT Defender Lower from Ten Percent Firearms. They had the S&W lower (complete rifles as well) but if I do get another upper I’m thinking the LMT piston MRP. It has the A2 stock and I got a Monster grip for a featureless build. I also intend to attach a B-15 magazine lock to allow use of all my uppers in the proper configurations. Thanks

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

I bought a full stag model 5 6.8 spc with bullet button recently and have had no problems firing it at a local outdoor range...but i traveled to an indoor range and they haggled over the legality claiming that they should call the DOJ and have it taken from me...then turned me away. Are there any official DOJ publications regarding bullet buttons on AR style rifles that i can direct their supervision to?

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

BusaAR,

You can't fix stupid. What range gave you a hassle? You are going to find some people that refuse to acknowlege the legality even after thousands and thousands are being sold and used. The DOJ knows all the shops that are selling them - even complete rifles with Bullet Buttons installed. If they were illegal they know where we are and can come arrest us. They arent and that should tell you something. The DOJ is not officially endorsing any OLL related products. Just take your range business elsewhere. For instance, I shoot several different AR and AK style rifles at On Target in Laguna Niguel all the time - no hassles whatsoever because they understand the law.

Actually, I would probably invite them to call the DOJ or at least to show you the penal code that says they are illegal. It would probalby be a waste of your time, as they will not be able to cite anything other than to just say that they "know" it to be true. You will find a lot of stubborness and ignorance at ranges and gun shops. Check out the OLL flow-chart - hell, print it out and take it to them if you wish. It cites all the pertinant penal codes and explains exactly why your rifle IS legal. They can either accept it or just walk away in a huff because you showed them up.

http://blog.riflegear.com/articles/california-assault-weapon-identification-flowchart.aspx

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Good points.... it was Guns & Fishing in Vacaville. I Usually shoot at the Willow Pass Range in Concord but they are close don Tuesdays so I packed up and drove out to Vacaville. I wanted to bill the Range master for gas!!!

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Are LEO's allowed to have a bullet button or prince 50 lower with 30 round mags?

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Manny,

No, a LEO must abide by the same rules as anyone else in this regard - only a 10 round magazine if using a fixed-mag rifle. Then again, a LEO can get permission from their department to buy a regular AR in some PDs. Like many of the gun laws in CA, they have exceptions for LEO.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

is there any end in sight to SB23?

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

I just want to know one thing. Can i build an ar-15 if i did not own one prior to the ban?No felonies or misdemeanors never been to jail.I own three weapons already,all legal.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Brad,

Absolutely. Read the blog entry at the top of the page and click the links.

Manny,

I think we are stuck with the status quo for awhile.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

this will never be legal as long as it has a pistol grip and and a detachable magazine. they saw people were doing this and conveniently changed the law to close that loophole also. it used to allow a detachable magazine and one other item. now it allows no pistol grip at all. it also states that AR type weapons instead of a list. go to the california doj website and look up the laws if you want the newest updates. i was going to try the sam build but then looked it up and found it ian't legal

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Donbo you couldn't be farther from the truth. When using a magazine lock such as the Bullet Button, it is not considered a detachable magazine so the pistol grip is fine. There was no change in the law that has anything to do with magazine lock kits. If you can produce the applicable penal code section please post it.

It is legal and I have hundreds of customers, including police officers and members of the LA County DA office to name a few, that have built CA legal off-list AR style rifles. Thousands have been built in the last few years in CA. Go to an outdoor range or a CA gun show and educate yourself. The Type 2 assault weapon classification, the one that describes an AR or AK "series" weapon has been superceded by the decision in Harrot vs Kings County that was heard in the CA Supreme Court:

http://web.mit.edu/~joncox/www/docs/harrott_v_kings.shtml

The majority opinion of the court is that it is not up to the individual or the courts to decide if a rifle is part of a "series" that is similar to another rifle on the list. The CA DOJ has to explicitly add the make/model of each rifle to the list. Subsequent legislation was passed that prevents them from even adding more makes/models to the list. They did not want to open up a new registration period for the tens of thousands of off-list lower receivers that were legally transferred into California. The current game of using a magazine lock in order to have other features is what we are stuck with for now - and it's all 100% legal.

Don't take my word for it - go to www.calguns.net and discuss it in the rifleman's forum or talk to the firearms lawyers at Michel and Trutanich that have been at the center of any off-list cases the past few years.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Hi All , I'm building my first AR 15 with these features :

LAR Lower Receiver ( CAL offlist LAR Grizzly 15) with bullet button on it ,the Stock will be
Stag Arms A2 Buttstock
and Ergo Rigid Ambi Tactical Deluxe with Adjustable Palm Rest Grip
C Products 10 Round Magazine .223/5.56mm

Upper will be 16 " Stag Arms Model 3H with A2 Flash Hider

with the scope Supper Sniper SS10X42

with picture look like this http://www.swfa.com/viewcustomer.aspx?entry=597

My question is , is it will be 100% of California Legal AR 15, and some how if i get fullover by the cops , do i have any trouble with this AR 15 ( it's will be unloaded and in the locked case by laws) . I just want to make sure again before i can begining to enjoys my new AR 15 with respest Cal Gun Laws and have no troubles at all .

Thanks a lot for any help from senior AR 15 User

# dpms stripped lower

Is it legal to posses a ON LIST stripped DPMS lower in California?

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Unless you registered it a listed Lower can't be made legal. That's why i had to spend $ to basically change the name on the side of the receiver. Anybody know how to send off and sell a listed lower to a free State?

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

I dont plan on building a dpms lower into a rifle. I am just curious as to the possesion of a on list stripped dpms lower being legal?

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

James,

If it is on-list and it was not registered back in 2000 then it is illegal to have it in your posession in CA. I would recommend you either destroy it or get it out of state.

# Building a California-legal AR-10 rifle

I am a legal resident of the state of California. Would you help build an AR-10 modeled after the M110 and still be legal?

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Ten Percent Firearms has Noveske N6 7.62mm Stripped Lower Receivers. They will run a Armalite AR10 upper. Just put a Mag lock om it.


http://www.tenpercentfirearms.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=9&products_id=563

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

The Noveske N6 is good, or if you can locate the Aero Precision 308 lower that would be even cheaper. Add an Armalite upper, a Daniel Defense AR10 rail and duracoat spray the whole thing desert tan and you are getting close. Does KAC sell the rail system and the adjustable buttstock to the public?

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Hi David, I'm an L.E.O. in Southern Cali and just purchased my "California legal m4" from a local gun shop. When I bought it, they asked me if I wanted a 30 round mag, which I accepted. They explained to me that because I am an officer, I was allowed to have the larger magazine. They requested my police ID and made a copy of it, for what I presume was to be placed on some official record....I was also told by "Pro Force Law enforcement" in brea, CA that officers were allowed to carry larger magazines in an "off duty" capacity (shooting at local ranges)...I trused these sources and now I'm reading on your site that this is not allowed? Can you clear this up please? Or cite a code that states officers are not allowed to have larger magazines? Thanks.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Hi Guy’s I have a Steyr USR I was going to make a Mag lock for it but Raddlock makes one now so cool. My problem is that I lost my 20" barrel in a fire and my 16" gives me a OAL of only 27". Till I can scare up and can afford to pay for a 20" I had a thought . If I put a bayonet lug on it with a bayonet that stuck out 3.5" would I be legal with a OAL of 30.5? Tiny

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

I too am L.E.O. in southern Cali. I too was told that "I" may have & use hi caps. CAN SOMEONE PLEASE CLEAR THE AIR

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

I would be very careful in this area. I do know that the penal code specifically states that using a fixed magazine with capacity > 10 rounds is an assault weapon. This is in the penal code 12276.1

(a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall
also mean any of the following:
...
(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine
with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

To me that says putting a 30 round magazine into a rifle with a magazine lock creates an Assault Weapon. There is nothing in the penal code that provides for an LEO exception that I am aware of. I would not advise anyone to do it, LEO or otherwise. I have heard that LEO can get permission from their department to purchaes a regular Assault Weapon (no magazine lock required). I do not know of any documentation to back this up, however.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

David,

I have been searching high and low EVERYWHERE for a 10 round like yours. Finally found a site that carried then, so i called and they said that it was just a representation and that the real one is a straight :(.

So...I know that they have been discontinued and may be hard to get, but do you know of anywhere i can get one?

I just started on my construction of my m4. gotta wait 9 more days for me to get my hands on the lower!

Thanks for your help

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Estevan,

Those are the old style Bushmaster 10 round magazines. They have been discontinued for well over a year now so it would be a major find to score a new one at this point. You may be able to find a used one somewhere if you are lucky. If you like that size, you may want to consider a PMag or C Products 10/20 magazine. I sell both on my site, but I am currently out of the PMag 10/20 in black at the moment.

http://riflegear.com/c-30-magazines.aspx

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Do you have any information on AR pistol builds? I heard that if you register the lower as a pistol you can have a shorter than 16inch barrel. I'm sure the bullet button and 10 round mags still apply. Is there any other rules or laws that apply to this?

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

I would to request assistance on building my own CA Legal AR 15. I have MANY questions and wondering if someone is able to assist me in doing so. I will be purchasing a DSA Lower receiver, i know that i will need to purchase lower parts kit, upper receiver, pistol grip, scope, forward grip, collapsable stock, a bullet button. The problem is I do not know how to assemble all of these, and would like a link or email on how to assemble my rifle step by step. Once the rifle is completed, do i need to register it? PLEASE HELP

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

David,

I am going to be buying all my parts through your website. Stag Upper 1H, lower parts kit, stock kit, bullet button, and that 10/30 round magazine! 700 bucks!

Thanks for all your help!

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Tony..

If you want info on putting the rifle together go to www.ar15.com
or.. just go to this link..
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=226782

You will not have to register the rifle when it is completed however..
you will have to register the Lower Receiver when you pick it up

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Tony,.

If you are not sure how to assembly it, just go to buy complete Lower receiver ,and the complete Upper , put it together in second, I m just finished mine AR 15 with the Lower (from ADE`s) and the 3H Upper (from riflegear.com) . I m very happy with my first AR , Thanks for useful information from David.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Does any body know anything about the Stag Upper 2HT? Any real pictures would be nice!

Thanks!

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Estevan,

The Stag 2HT is probably one of the best value uppers out there. We have it priced at $668 at www.riflegear.com and for that price you get a 16" chrome lined barrel, a Sampson free-float quad rail, an ARMS #40L low-profile rear flip sight, bolt/carrier/charging handle. It's not as nice a barrel as a CMMG, LMT, BCM, etc... but it's going to be at least a couple hundred dollars cheaper than a comparable upper from one of those mfgs. We sell more 2HT and 2H uppers than anything else and our customers are happy with it.

I'm going to have to take my own pictures of the Stag uppers because the ones from the stag site are pretty poor. The upper looks great in person.

Here are some pics of the Sampson Star-C rail that is on the 2HT:
http://www.samson-mfg.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=SM&Product_Code=STAR-C&Category_Code=AR-15_Rail_Systems

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

The MonsterMan non pistol grip looks better than the U15. Has anyone built the CA legal AR15 using the "monsterMan" non pistol grip? I was wondering how it feels like holding/firing the rifle, since your thumb will not be able to be in its proper place like the way you hold a regular rifle like 10/22 or mini 14.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Another question. Is there any markings on mags that would indicate when they were made? I mean, what if I can get hi cap mags from out of state sent to me as a gift, cant I just say I had it since 2000?

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Louie,

There are no markins on "post-ban" magazines. However, doing what you propose would be a felony and I would advise against it.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Louie,

A buddy of mine told me that him and his little gun club felt as if it was perfectly leagal to import hi-cap magazines into california.

Well if you read the law, it is completely illegal, and WOULD be considered a felony if caught using them. If you want to get a hi-cap magazine look, Go on riflegear.com and look under magazines. They sell great 10 round but in a 30 round body, making it 100% legal.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

David and Estevan,

Thanks. With this advice. now I'm thinking of going for the bullet button and build an AR with the evil features. David, if I'm just going for the very basic AR 16" barrel, would you say that it's just in the $700 range?
I'm also reading some articles that there are AR barrels thats rated for .223 cal instead of 5.56 mil spec rounds, if this is true, can you suggest a reasonable priced upper that can take take the hot 5.56 rounds?

Thanks again.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

David,

Do you know of any dealer that sells an AR15 pre-assebled similar to yours pictured above? I've seen the Vulcan and the Bushmaster CA legal's. They are not nearly as awesome looking as yours show above. Or do you know of any other AR15 CA legal brands other then Vulcan or Bushmaster that look a little better? I would love to build my own like you did, but I don't have the knowledge or patients to find all the parts and build it myself. Thanks alot David!

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Louie,

If you are asking if there is a upper receiver that can take both, 5.56 and .223 rem, than the answer would be any 5.56 rifle is compatible taking .223 as well. you can shoot both rated out of your upper.

James,

I felt the same as you, and i bought a bushmaster carbon 15 for 800 bucks. Let me tell you, after a year i got so sick of having to top load it, and the way it looked with no magazine, that i sold it for 780. With that money, i can build a CA legal AR and have some customized options.

Putting together a lower AR is SIMPLEEEEEE. just go online and follow the instructions. Youll be done in less than an hour. then just buy a complete upper and you are good to go shooting.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Estevan,

Thanks for the response! I will take your advice. However, you said to go online and follow the instructions. Where online and what instructions? Thanks!

James

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

I used the website that Ron gave us,

"If you want info on putting the rifle together go to www.ar15.com
or.. just go to this link..
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=226782 "

it is perfect. OH , and if you can, avoid using a hammer for the roll pin, just use a punch!

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

How do you install a bullet button? Where does this happen in this process? Thanks.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

The Bullet Button comes with it's own instructions but is very easy. You just drop it in when installing the magazine catch instead of using the standard magazine release button. All you need is a flat-blade screwdriver to install it.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

it looks like every web site is backordered on their ar15 upper receivers .... anybody might have theories on why??

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

My theory is that everyone is trying to get their's before more rights are taken away. The new administration has expressed a clear disagreement of our 2nd amendment rights.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

I just bought a cmmg upper. It is only a 14.7" barrel but it has the flash hider permanently welded on. Before I take this thing out I want to make sure that this is legal in CA. Does the weld make it a legal length?

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

John, as long as the barrel + permanently attached flash hider is 16" or longer you meet the barrel length requirement. Make suer you are using a magazine lock such as the Bullet Button or else the flash-hider is a banned feature.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Thanks for the info, I do have a bullet button on my lower so I am all good there too.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

****NOTICE*****

DO NOT BY FROM WWW.AR15.COM!

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

**** www.AR15SALES.com**** oops hahah

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

David,

Do you have any information on building an AR pistol in California?

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

You can't build an AR pistol in California, but if you are willing to go through a middleman or find a helpful FFL out of state it can be done. Basically, there are exceptions in the California "safe handgun list" for single-shot pistols. So if you transfer in a single-shot AR pistol you can DROS it legally. Also, there is no law that prohibits you from later converting that single-shot pistol into semi-auto operation.

You can use something like a Prince50 magazine lock and a single-shot sled fixed in place:
http://www.dctechs.com/obspage.htm

There is more information on this available at www.calguns.net

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

What is the law about a 9mm AR-15 can if be owned in California?

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Thanks for the info David

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

i have a question too.
i have just built my first ar stag lower with a bullet button and 10 round mag
completly california legal
my question is- so say i get pulled over coming back from the range and the cop
sees the gun and "thinks its illegal" due to lack of knowledge of the law. do i refuse to give it
to him and argue and demand someone else who knows the law to come look at it
(id perfer to respect my authority) or let him take it then fight for it back
and what are the chances i get it back-- can they legaly take it if its compliant with the law

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Awesome post.

One question, I noticed that the Category III assault weapons are all centerfire semiautomatic.

I was thinking of building a .22LR AR-15 using the Tactical Solutions upper receiver and barrel assembly.

Since the .22LR is rimfire, does this mean I can have all the "evil features" and it doesn't fall under the ban?

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Any chance that you'd put on a workshop for first time builders? We bring our own or buy parts from you and then have a workshop for a fee where we can build our AR's/AK's etc. with assistance from the pros?

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

I noticed on riflegear that most everything needed for a build is out of stock. Is this the case and if so why?
Also, I could not find any stripped lowers on your site.

Thanks,

Tom

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Paul,
Yes a 9mm AR is fine but it has to follow the same rules as a rifle round.

Danny,
If you refuse to cooperate with a cop you are going to be facing more than just a potential AW possession charge. Just explain the legality and hope it doesn't get to that point. There have been cases of people getting their rifles back when wrongfully confiscated so it is not unheard of.

kps,
Yes, a rimfire rifle can have detachable magazine and other evil features as long as it meets the overall length requirement and is built on an off-list lower receiver.

Dan,
I don't have any AK building experience but putting together an AR is very simple. There are lots of "how-to" videos and illustrated guides on the internet.

Tom,
It's because there was/is a wave of panic buying after Obama won the election. All AR suppliers throughout the entire country have been cleaned out and the manufacturers are struggling to meet the demand. Look around at the price of AR lowers - most have increased 50% - %100 or more. You won't find stripped lowers on my sight because we do not have an FFL (yet).

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Thanks for the response! When selecting a lower, is it essential to know what caliber you want or is it a "take what you can get " thing right now. I'd prefer to fire 7.62 for cost reasons but I'm finding mostly 5.56 lowers out there.
Also, what do you put a budget build at these days? Seems like it will be higher than what you mentioned several months back.

Thanks!

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

hi,
i NEED HELP WHAT IS THE LEGAL AGE REQUIREMENT IN CALIFORNIA TO PURCHASE A OFF THE LIST LOWER RECIEVER ?
IM 19 TURNING 20 IN APRIL 2009 I WENT TO DISCOUNT GUN MART IN SAN DIEGO,CA THE CLERK TOLD ME YOU HAVE TO BE 21 YEARS OLD I JUST CALLED COLD WAR SHOOTERS AND THEY TOLD ME ITS 18 YEARS OF AGE SO IM CONFUSED HERE CAN ANYBODY HELP GET THE RIGHT INFO I APRICIATED ALL THE HELP YOU CAN GIVE THANK YOU!

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

hi,
i NEED HELP WHAT IS THE LEGAL AGE REQUIREMENT IN CALIFORNIA TO PURCHASE A OFF THE LIST LOWER RECIEVER ?
IM 19 TURNING 20 IN APRIL 2009 I WENT TO DISCOUNT GUN MART IN SAN DIEGO,CA THE CLERK TOLD ME YOU HAVE TO BE 21 YEARS OLD I JUST CALLED COLD WAR SHOOTERS AND THEY TOLD ME ITS 18 YEARS OF AGE SO IM CONFUSED HERE CAN ANYBODY HELP GET THE RIGHT INFO I APRICIATED ALL THE HELP YOU CAN GIVE THANK YOU!

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Raul,

The legal age to build a m4/ar15 and any other type of other long gun/rifle would be 18 years of age. 21 years of age or older applies to pistol purchases.

As for the lower receiver, you will have to find a gun dealer that carries the OLL's.

Go to the top of this page to see a google map of some of the rifle dealers in your area that are distributing the lowers.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

I am moving to california soon. I own a smith and wesson M&P15 ar15. if i take off the current button and add a bullet button, is it then legal in CA?

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

thanks a million estevan you cheered me up buddy for a minute i lost hope but you help me regain hope thank you thanks evrybody for the help ^-^

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Tom,
For the most part, AR-15 lowers that are marked as 5.56 can still be used with 7.62, 6.8, 9mm, and other caliber uppers. A .308 is an exception, however. Sometimes you need to substitute some parts, such as hammer, or add a magazine block, but they should all work fine.

Raul,
The fact of the matter is that the new 4473 form (DROS paperwork) DOES state that a stripped receivers is an "other firearm" and in order to buy "other" you have to be 21 years old. Some dealers are going to continue to DROS that to you as a "longgun" but that is not following the new rules. Other dealers will require you to be 21 or can sell you a "complete lower" as a longgun. If you find a complete lower, with stock attached, that is a long gun and you can get that one if you are 18. If ColdWar is willing to dros you a stripped lower at age 18 then take advantage of that while you can.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Raul,

If you live in Northern California, J & R Sport Supply in Livermore California, is amazing! I am 20 years old, and they helped me out greatly, and are always there for you before and after sale.

They sold me my Lower Receiver, no questions asked! They even said "hurry up and buy it before it's too late". I apologize for giving you the wrong information, i was not aware that you had to be legally 21 in order to purchase a stripped lower receiver. Me and my buddies have never had a problem with age requirements, and in fact i never heard about the 21-age-requirement until you asked.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Thanks again. I ended up with an off list 6.8 lower. Purchased a Raddlock and a Mag from you guys for starters.
You will see more of my business in the future as I upgrade my entry level AR.

Thanks!

Tom

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

One more question. When using a bullet button type device in CA, is the rifle technically illegal while removing and inserting a new mag if it has other "evil features"?

Thanks

Tom

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Hey,

Just wanted to stop by and say thanks for the info. I used it and the links to AR15.com to build my rifle, and every question I had was answered and then some.

Actually it was good timing for me, I bought my stripped lower on the 8th of November as a birthday present to myself (was 19 at the time, turned 20 on the 10th.) and picked it up on the 20th and they told me if I had waited 1 week longer they wouldn't have been able to make the sale, as the new form took effect on the 15th. It's a little mind boggling the logic behind it.. but, that's Californian legislature for ya.

Anyway, thanks again for the info and the site/shop, been a world of help.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Im thinking of going with the 6.8mm. is there a 10 round mag for those?

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

nevermind, just found it on your site. any 10rd mags in 6.8 that look like a 20 or 30? nad whats the general opinion on the 6.8?

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

I have two stripped lowers due in, and was planning on building one to 556 for the real thing. I wanted to build the second as a cheaper/everyday gun for indoor range (pistol round). Would the 9 mm be about the same as a 45, and keep the ammo cost down?

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

I had heard that active duty military can obtain assault weapons permits. Is this still in effect? Thanks

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

to buy a stripped lower you have to be 21 because it can be trasformed into a pistol, technically, what makes a stripped lower a rifle to be sold to someone who is under 21 years old, or is it that under 21 can not have a lower at all.

# regestering a stripped receiver

After reading your blog and others, is it true there are two ways to register the lower receivers?

I have been told you can register just the stripped receiver as a RECEIVER (must be 21), or you can have the trigger/grip/stock all assembled and it is now a completed lower that can be registered as a LONG RIFLE.

My concern is if the law is changed would having it registered as a long rife; allow me to grandfather this rifle to my son.

# reg stripped lower

what about registered pistol lowers, is that what you have to be 21 to have??

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

is this a new law?? 21 law?

I bought a stripped lower in november..? Am i illegal? haha

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

I recently put together an AR15 with the Bullet Button mag release. As far as a tool goes, I took a small allen wrench and using one of my wife's hair ties (small black elastic band), I looped it through the front portion of the trigger guard and then to the allen wrench. The allen wrench hangs freely about a half an inch below the trigger guard and when it comes time to change mags, I just grab it and use it to punch to button. I found that I can change mags just a hair slower than a regular mag release using my finger. The allen wrench does not get into my way of handling the weapon. If anyone would like to see a pic, I can email them one. Thanks.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

no, nov 15 is when the new deparment of justice forms came out that prohibit anyone under 21 from haveinstrippedlower

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

i am looking into a noveske n6 lower. i would like to put a armalite ar 10 t 300 mag upper will this combo work.any info on where to buy or how much to pay would be great.i am looking for a good elk and deer rifle and like the feel of the ar.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

To all CA brethren who are going the Bullet Button route a note of caution:

According to Ade, a local gun shop owner, a fellow shooter recently built up an AR-15 platform using the Bullet Button and 10 round mags (sounds legal so far according to this thread, right?). The gentleman in reference was a long time customer of Ade's. Ade had warned his customer to NEVER drop a mag in public with the Bullet Button and 10 round mags, even though in combination in the gun they do not appear to be illegal. The gentleman in reference was at a local shooting range along with friendly fellow shooters. The gentleman was dropping and replacing the legal 10 round mags using a round pushed in to the Bullet Button. While still on the line, BATF, who apparently had been watching the range from some distance under general surveillance pulled up, cuffed the gentleman and arrested him. From what Ade told me he is now a convicted felon and hence can no longer own or purchase firearms. The simple act of dropping the mag, even though it was a 10 round mag and the Bullet Button was used, was deemed to have made the AR an assault rifle. Had he not dropped the mag Ade believes he would have been o.k. (but of course, he would have only been able to shoot the 10 rounds in the mag and then be done).

BE CAREFUL PEOPLE.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

Bretoneer,

I have to stop you right there as you are spreading FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt). An employee that works with Ade told me he has heard this story hundreds of times and it gets larger and larger with every telling. It is BS. First of all, the ATF is a federal agency and doesn't and wouldn't bother enforcing CA specific laws. Secondly, no-one can seem to either name this gentleman or come up with a case number or provide any proof other than "I heard from Ade...". Thirdly, there is NOTHING in the law that could even remotely be contrived to say that removing a magazine with a tool would render the firearm to be an AW. If it requires a tool to remove the magazine, it is not an AW - period. The Bullet Button, and similar products such as RaddLock, allow the user to remove the magazine legally with the use of a tool. If there is somebody out there that was arrested, charged, and convicted of an OLL-related violation of the AW laws, somebody at calguns would know about it and nobody there has a clue what Ade is talking about.

I'm not trying to call you out, but your "warning" is actually doing a disservice to CA shooters by spreading a rumor that NOBODY can back up. If you can provide some real proof I'd be happy to investigate it. In the meantime, why not read the training Bulletin that the Sacramento PD is using to explain to their officers that Bullet Button equipped AR rifles that allow a tool to remove the magazine are legal: http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/Sacramento-PD-OLL_Training_Bulletin-2008-11-18.pdf

David

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

perfect link david. i was looking for something just like it! I will be printing, and carry with me when i shoot.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

when do you start the dros form is it when you order the lowers from the company or is it when you go to your ffl when they arrive.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

can my girlfriend buy me the lowers online with her creditcard and i go pick it up from the ffl.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

frank,

If you buy an Off List Lower Receiver online, then you are going to have to have a local Gunshop (or a Federal Firearms License Dealer of your personal preference) approve the shipment coming in. On top of that, you are going to have to pay the regular fees (usually 50 dollars to use their FFL, and back ground check + 10 day waiting period).

Best thing to do is go to the top of this page, and click on the "nice google maps of OLL's in your area" under Step 1. From there, either call or go into the shop to see if they have any in stock. That way you don't have to slap on that extra 50 dollar fee when it arrives at an FFL, if they even approve of your importation. That is all if there is a local gunshop that stocks them in your local area.

www.AIMsurplus.com sells OLL's.

# HHHHEEELLLPPPP

can someone that is under 21 have a complete ar in their name?????????? technically it is not a stripped lower???

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

daniel,

Under law, the age requirement for possessing a legal RIFLE in their name is 18 years of age. An Ar-15 is considered a Rifle. You can legal have an AR-15 complete at 18 years of age on up.
You can also buy the lower COMPLETE which is registered as a RIFLE (stripped lower, lower parts, complete butt stock, and magazine lock all already pre assembled) legally however it is very unlikely that they come together. I haven't heard of anybody that sells them that way though.

I bought my first AR at age 18. It was a Bushmaster Carbon 15.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

any one know where to buy lower receivers from i want a 308 ar 10 but cant find them anywhere.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

so as long as you dont have a flash hider and a 10 clip its legal in califonia. and i also heard that the rifle couldn't have a detachable clip, you need to have a set up where the uper receiver opens by a pin and you have to load the rifle like a .308 winchester, ect. and i also read that a forward grip was illegal.

so whos weapon this is, or who ever knows the regulations can you please send me an email anserwing my questions

mikekerr721@yahoo.com

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

read up on calguns.net. All your questions will be answered

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

is it okay to have a the end of a barrel threaded in cali

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

will you be making more Bullet Button? its been out of stock for a while now..thanks and looking forward to hear from you

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

A threaded barrel on a longgun is not illegal in California, but it is no a handgun.

We have Bullet Buttons in stock now and will have more AR Raddlocks in about two weeks.

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

you are talking about threaded barrels on the end, where you can screw on compensators and flash suppressors right?

# re: Building a California-legal AR-15 rifle

are you talking about the threads at the end of the barrel where you can screw on a compensator or a flash suppresor, that is legal??

# re: California Legal AR-15 Rifle Comment Archive

comments archived 10/23/2009